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Post by fredbelknap on Nov 3, 2009 21:10:54 GMT -6
I am planing to put in new counter top this winter. I'm thinking to use formica and trim the outside with wood. I haven't used mdf and was wondering if it would make a better counter top than plywood. MDF has only been available at local Lowes in the past year.
Fred
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 3, 2009 21:30:39 GMT -6
That's exactly what I used in the Vershire house, Fred - including one "U"-shaped section of counter that was about 8'x6'. The MDF gave me a very flat, stable substrate for the Formica and a good glue surface for the solid oak banding I used. If it's for a sink, be sure to use plenty of plumber's putty to mount that sink - you don't want any moisture to get into the MDF from spills.
I should warn you - it's heavy and it's dusty. Figure 96 pounds for a 3/4" sheet, which is 49" by 97" (oversized one inch each way), and the dust is NASTY. Use a mask or work in the wind.
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Post by sachbvn on Nov 3, 2009 22:02:50 GMT -6
To support what Tim said - that stuff is DUSTY.... it's.... like.... almost so fine and soft - you can ALMOST compact it into little MDF-dust balls.... not quite enough stick to it though.
It's awesome because of it's flatness - IMO - it doesn't seem to be near as prone to warpage from the store... sometimes plywood kinda gets warped because it is stored wrong at the store - this stuff seems to be in a little better shape.
Like Tim said - any moisture is the kryptonite to MDF - seriously - it swells up and becomes totally useless. It sucks water like a sponge and then molds.
Not to discourage you from using it - just realize, take every precaution to stay away from moisture.
I've used contact cement and lamintate a few times on it - works awesome. Follow the directions of the contact cement, and things should go perfectly. Make sure to press, or "roll" every inch of the freshly laminated top - then, when clamping, make sure that any edges and ESPECIALLY the corners are clamped really well - also - don't skimp on the glue. You don't want gobs forming, but don't skimp either - especially on edges and corners.... it's pretty easy to clean up when dry - especially off of laminate - just rub with your fingers until it rolls up in stands and balls.
The stuff is, like Tim said, pretty heavy - make sure it's supported well - I wouldn't try and span anything too far - you'll likely get sags.
Zac
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 3, 2009 22:24:40 GMT -6
They have Light Weight version of MDF now, which I understand is a lot lighter and easier to handle...
I have not used it... A friend likes it...
Perfect for your job!
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Post by CajunRider on Nov 4, 2009 8:35:42 GMT -6
I like the MDF flatness but if it were me, I'd use plywood. I guess it came from my nasty experiences with having to fix MDF counter top with sink leaks.
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Post by mapleman on Nov 4, 2009 9:05:43 GMT -6
you like concrete?  ?  we did concrete in our kitchen and it is super cool... just throwing another idea out there to consider. for formica -- do just like the fellas said - mdf is the best. and liek Tim said - keep the moisture out. if you don't, it will spunge it up and then disintegrate.... john |
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 4, 2009 11:55:53 GMT -6
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Post by cabinetman on Nov 6, 2009 12:54:49 GMT -6
The impact resistance of high pressure laminate (like Formica brand), depends on what it's glued to. MDF and even particle board make excellent substrates, as they both are flat and more dense than plywood. But, around water sources , like sinks, I use plywood. Moisture can come from anywhere, even from underneath. There can be steam from a dishwasher, or an unexpected leak in the sink's plumbing. |
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Post by fredbelknap on Nov 6, 2009 17:30:01 GMT -6
I may use both, it's in two parts and the part with the sink is a little less than 8' so I probably make that section out of plywood. Thanks for replies.
edit: How would you attach the trim to the edge, would glue with a few finish nails do the job? Fred
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 6, 2009 17:46:20 GMT -6
I never used any nails for mine - just glue did the job. I applied one sizing coat of glue to seal the edge of the MDF, then wiped it down well while it was still wet. When it was dry, I did it "for real" with glue & my oak trim. Clamped it in place, fairly close to where it was 'posed to be, and waited for the glue to dry. The router trimmed it level with the top of the Formica.
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Post by cabinetman on Nov 6, 2009 18:11:45 GMT -6
This would be a method for using a 3/4" substrate and having it finish with a 1 1/2" face edge. Add to the bottom front and back edge of the substrate, a 3/4" x 2 1/2" buildup so the edge is 1 1/2" thick. Those buildups will fit on the front and rear rails of the cabinet. I hold the buildup in the rear 1/2" in to allow for scribing if necessary. Once the buildup is on, block sand it flat. Laminate the top and leave a bit of overhang of the mica. Use a flush trim bit in your handheld router and trim off the overhang. Block sand the edge flat. Glue and clamp the wood edging to the substrate edge. It can be brad nailed if you have to. Make sure the the height of the wood is slightly higher than the laminate. Use the flush trim bit to level the wood edge to the laminate face. If final leveling of the wood is necessary, a sharp chisel used bevel up and dragged on the edge, or a scraper will also work. When the top is ready to install. it gets screwed down from the underside of the cabinet rails into the bottom of the buildup. |
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Post by dtkuntz on Nov 11, 2009 19:27:07 GMT -6
:)I build top for a living we use industrial partial board because of weight but I also have used mdf and that works great also. Either one I would smear silcone around the inside of your sink cut out. It is cheap insurance . we attach wood to the front of tops using pocket holes. works really well
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 11, 2009 19:33:44 GMT -6
Hey, I don't b'lieve we've met, DT. Hi! |
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Joe Lyddon
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Banned.
Sam Maloof & I Dec. 2, 2005
Posts: 2,507
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 11, 2009 19:54:58 GMT -6
Hi dtkuntz...
You missed the Introduction section! but that's OK...
Welcome Aboard!
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Post by fredbelknap on Nov 12, 2009 7:20:04 GMT -6
I thank everyone for info. Hi DT I like the pocket hole suggestion. Was in Lowes couple days ago and they had birch plywood that looked pretty dang good. $40 a sheet.
Fred
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Post by deepsplinter on Nov 12, 2009 7:28:44 GMT -6
Pocket holes is a good idea, but if you go with 'em, be careful not to overtighten. That MDF (if that's what you use) will crush/chip out very easily. I know this from experience. I used the washer head screws and still blew a couple out.
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Post by Jim Brown on Nov 14, 2009 8:11:19 GMT -6
I was talking to a guy who does a poured polyurethane countertop process that can look like stone or marble or ... well, like nothing that occurs in nature ... I think I'm going to go with something like that for the kitchen I'm going to redo this winter. I'll probably do an undermount sink ... or two ...
Anyhow, Matt was telling me there's a 1.5" mdf material available that would be ideal. I don't know where to find it, though, and while I'm not worried getting into the mdf from above, the reference to dishwasher steam does give me pause ... thinking maybe I'll put laminate on the otherside. Hmm.
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Post by CajunRider on Nov 17, 2009 0:52:34 GMT -6
Did you do it yet Fred? May I suggest that you try the 3/4" ply then use 12" granite tile for the top? I've seen that done and it looks absolutely great and the cost is very reasonable.
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Post by fredbelknap on Nov 17, 2009 8:09:45 GMT -6
Did you do it yet Fred? May I suggest that you try the 3/4" ply then use 12" granite tile for the top? I've seen that done and it looks absolutely great and the cost is very reasonable. I have thought about that but I'm not familiar with the process. How do I trim out the edges, how to work around the sink, grouting. I would need a tile saw and there is no rental places around here. Not planning to start until after the holidays. I will give it some thought. Fred |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 17, 2009 8:25:14 GMT -6
Heck, you can buy a tile saw (wet saw, diamond blade) at Harbor Fright for about $60...
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