Tims Proto Plane

[lexrex]

This is great stuff so far!!! Put me down for the smoother.

As far as the stepped sole...for a dedicated smoother, I think it will work. I say it that way because if I were to want to use it for other purposes and perhaps drop the blade another 2 thou to hog out more wood, I would make the concavity problem Jerry mentioned even worse...no?

[TDHofstetter]

It'd be about the same - slightly less, in fact. Lemme sketch up a couple of drawings to examine the way both styles of plane work.

[lexrex]

Some motivation:
This guy does some amazing work.

www.sauerandsteiner.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=752

[TDHofstetter]

Yep, astounding fit & finish on some of those. There are several guys around who make really REALLY pretty ones - ones I wouldn't dare ever let see work if I had one.

Ref those drawings I mentioned... I've got 'em now. Got nine sketches, all of which are greatly exaggerated and simplified for clarity's sake.

The first three exemplify a standard flat-soled plane, fettled or not (it really doesn't make any difference, especially at the plane's toe):

At entry, at the end of a board:


In the middle of a stroke:


At the end of the stroke (note the red area - that's what will be cut off next, when the plane's toe drops off the end):

---

Now let's look at my stepped-sole planes... with the iron adjusted correctly.

At entry, at the end of a board:


In the middle of a stroke:


At the end of the stroke (note the that the end of the cut remains totally flat):

---

Cool. Let's examine, last, what happens when you overextend the iron on a stepped-sole plane.

At entry, at the end of a board:


In the middle of a stroke:


At the end of the stroke (note that the red spot is back, where it'll snipe):

[Beamer]

Any chance I could sway ya to consider bevel-up with a low bed angle?

It would allow me to adjust the angle of attack with the blade for different situations.

Or ... gimme a SOLID adjustable angle frog

[TDHofstetter]

Most definitely - low angle, bevel up. It won't buy a LOT, but it'll buy something. One moment while I whip up a LA model...

[TDHofstetter]

Nov 8, 2009 1:25:35 GMT -6 Beamer said:

Any chance I could sway ya to consider bevel-up with a low bed angle?

It would allow me to adjust the angle of attack with the blade for different situations.

Or ... gimme a SOLID adjustable angle frog

Um. Lessee. How about a Shaker-simple LA block plane, for starters?



EDIT: Still no adjuster or lever cap yet - I'm workin' on them in my mind.

[mapleman]

i think of the beauties of the infill plane i have is the simplicity. the chipbreaker is just like any typical stanley/bailey/bedrock style... but the lever cap is the best. it is very simple, easily adjustable, and by its levering action help eject shavings...

bottom line -- in my world - simple is better.

on a small, block plane, the twist- style lever cap can be tricky b/c you may end up with such a large knob (to be comfortable) that is out of proportion and could even hamper one's ability to clear chips, etc... however, the stanley type (whether the knuckle joint or the swinging cam are not easy b/c you need a screwdriver to adjust the main screw. then swing the locking mechanism separately. the screw-type is simpler. and if it is brass it is less likely to shift the iron while you tighten...

just a few more thoughts for your pot Tim. watch out, i might even come with another!

i kept one idea, just in case i do not get another ;D

john

[TDHofstetter]

I really like the brass fatty lever caps usually seen in the infill planes myself, so I'll probably standardize on one or another variation on that theme for all my planes... even for the solid-steel thumb-sized chisel plane. Cute little thing, again simple unless I decide to embellish it...

[lexrex]

Nov 7, 2009 21:29:10 GMT -6 TDHofstetter said:

Yep, astounding fit & finish on some of those. There are several guys around who make really REALLY pretty ones - ones I wouldn't dare ever let see work if I had one.

Ref those drawings I mentioned... I've got 'em now. Got nine sketches, all of which are greatly exaggerated and simplified for clarity's sake.

The first three exemplify a standard flat-soled plane, fettled or not (it really doesn't make any difference, especially at the plane's toe):

At entry, at the end of a board:


In the middle of a stroke:


At the end of the stroke (note the red area - that's what will be cut off next, when the plane's toe drops off the end):

---

Now let's look at my stepped-sole planes... with the iron adjusted correctly.

At entry, at the end of a board:


In the middle of a stroke:

At the end of the stroke (note the that the end of the cut remains totally flat):

---

Cool. Let's examine, last, what happens when you overextend the iron on a stepped-sole plane.

At entry, at the end of a board:


In the middle of a stroke:


At the end of the stroke (note that the red spot is back, where it'll snipe)

Thanks for the visualization. When I imagined it, I thought of it in terms of a power jointer, imagining raising the cutter head higher than the stepped outfeed.

Has this ever been attempted by a major plane maker? Stanley? LV? If not, why not?

[TDHofstetter]

Nov 8, 2009 23:06:38 GMT -6 lexrex said:

Thanks for the visualization. When I imagined it, I thought of it in terms of a power jointer, imagining raising the cutter head higher than the stepped outfeed.

Has this ever been attempted by a major plane maker? Stanley? LV? If not, why not?

I've never seen it done, anywhere, by any plane maker large or small. Never heard a rumor of it, even. As to why not... it beats the heck out of me. Maybe everybody's been "following the calf path" all this time, cutting the ends off their roasts 'cause their mother's pan was too small. Maybe... they figured John Q. Public would never know the difference, and John Q. Cabinetmaker, who's always fettled his soles flat, would miss the point & fettle these flat, too, thinking they were defective.

[TDHofstetter]

OK, so I've been experimenting with lever caps. Since I like the infill-style caps, this is what I've nearly decided upon:



I'm not sure, though, if that star knob is right or if I should go back to a knurled knob. Maybe offer it either way?

[Joe Lyddon]

How about a Tri-star knob...

... where it's easy to get your fingers around it & get leverage to turn?

[sawduster]

I like that type of cap, also. Paid a little extra when I got my Knight smoother and then there was a fella over at woodnet who took orders for those type and then fabricated them. I picked up a couple from him to use on a couple home made wooden planes.

They are a little trickier than a threaded adjuster for the blade, but not as tough to work with as a wedge. I think I'd go with a knurled knob and one might get a little over zealous with a star shaped knob and over tighten. On a metal plane like that wouldn't be a problem as much as on a woodie where you could actually split the pin out of the wood. DAMHIKT

[mapleman]

i wonder if it is possible to have enough leverage to round over the brass over a couple of years/millenia? I am not at all saying this design is poor - I love the design. But I think Jerry is right that one does not want to have so much purchase that one can do damage... like a #18 block plane and the levering action of the knuckle cap --- could break the casting if over-exerted.

that is one of the reasons i like the knurling. but, then again, when my hands get smacked by Mr. Arthur Itis, perhaps I would prefer the star-type of knob...

john

[lexrex]

I agree, the knurled knob makes a lot of sense to me.

[Joe Lyddon]

I'd go with whatever Tim, the expert, selects... ;D

[sawduster]

Aw Joe, you're just sucking up. ;D

[Joe Lyddon]

Jerry, are accusing me of being a dust collector? ;D

[lexrex]

Nov 12, 2009 12:28:31 GMT -6 Joe Lyddon said:

Jerry, are accusing me of being a dust collector? ;D

At least a 3HP cyclone... ;D