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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 4, 2009 10:14:51 GMT -6
thinking about the miter plane deisgn.... i cannot figger out if'n i like the two-knob style or not. on one hand, i like it b/c you can push or pull without wierd hand contortions... BUT a full tote gives one so much control when pushing --- not sure if a knob would have as much control.... thoughts? Tim - I am not trying to be a pain - just thinking about kinks before you actually put heat to brass! NOW - with a miter plane used as a shooting board - is there a better way to orient the knob/tote to makie it easier to use? i have never used a miter plane - always just make do with a jack or LA block... how about a pivoting knob like the L-N 112 (or 212, cannot remember)... just thinking out loud -- scary, i know  john That's exactly why I'm posting these pictures - to get feedback from other plane users 'cause I can't speak for everyone... and I'd DANG well rather make every mistake possible in design so I won't hafta' redo physical prototypes over & over & over before I get something that works well. I've thought about reorientation of the knob(s), and even about swivels... and my head's still a little aswim there. I definitely want to be sure the miter plane can be used leftward as well as rightward, but I'm not happy with the wood shape as it is. I may end up going with a rounded "casket" handle for the rear, at least... something that'll feel comfortable with palm pressure at a compound angle - down, right/left, and away. Could be I end up with a variation on that for the front, too. The fingers can rest on the top side of the plane body if necessary, long's the palm's comfortable and the plane can be pulled back without scratching around for a fingernailhold. Hey, maybe a finger hole in each side. (?) |
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Nov 4, 2009 10:31:40 GMT -6
I'm thinkin the Hot Dog design like LN might be the ticket. Of course the hot dog would need to be right or left handed which means putting it on opposite corners of the top side of the plane. I don't recall ever shooting in any direction but one, so maybe a couple threaded holes for bolts on both of those corners to hold the handle on and making it so that folks could make it either left or right handed.
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 4, 2009 10:47:46 GMT -6
I'm thinkin the Hot Dog design like LN might be the ticket. Of course the hot dog would need to be right or left handed which means putting it on opposite corners of the top side of the plane. I don't recall ever shooting in any direction but one, so maybe a couple threaded holes for bolts on both of those corners to hold the handle on and making it so that folks could make it either left or right handed. Hmmm... you've got me intrigued, Jer, but I'm not quite sure I can visualize that handle. Got a pic? I don't find anything on LN's Website that seems like what you're talking about. |
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Nov 4, 2009 11:46:56 GMT -6
I'd like to see something a little larger, but here is their "Hotdog" attachment on their Iron Miter Plane.  There's is based roughly on the Stanley #9 shown below.  Like I said, I think a bit bigger and movable to the other corner would be nice. BTW when ever you're ready to update the SU of your other plane on the site, just email the new one and I will post it in place of the other so the same links work. |
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 4, 2009 12:11:08 GMT -6
Those don't look like they'd be very friendly to your hands...
Very different...
Reminds me of a Dashund trying to be something else... ;D ;D
Are they easier to adjust and keep in adjustment?
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 4, 2009 13:43:30 GMT -6
...here is their "Hotdog" attachment... Ah! I see whatche'r talkin' about now - hard to pick out for a moment there, till the Stanley 9 came into the picture. That's kinda' neat... a good addition, in one form or another, to the miter plane. If I do that, it'll hafta' come with a bearing surface inside it so the screws don't scratch the plane's faces... |
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Post by mapleman on Nov 4, 2009 14:16:11 GMT -6
and you could make it attachable to either side --- for those wierd lefthanders out there... I knew you knew - just had to say it anyway... what is the purpose of the rounded front and back on the Stanley and the L-N?  I have always wondered... I have seen some with hang holes - but figgered they were "user-added". I gotta go check the blood and gore... Tim - still hoping to get some pics and measurements tonight so that you have 'em... sorry... john |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 4, 2009 14:20:08 GMT -6
...what is the purpose of the rounded front and back... Got me... my best guess is that they're for a little more surface area, but it's only a guess. The one in the toe would seem to be more important - if that's why they're there - than the one in the heel. Now I may hafta' 'speriment with both ways & see which does the better job... |
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Post by mapleman on Nov 4, 2009 14:29:59 GMT -6
OOOOOH! i think maybe i know - just thought of it. maybe it was so that a corner would not dig in to the workbench when shooting?!?!?! that is all i got |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 4, 2009 20:53:37 GMT -6
Sitting here workin' on these plane designs (I've got the brass-sided smoother, a "heavy" all-steel smoother, the miter plane, and a thumb chisel plane all in the works right now)... I think I'm going to need to open the front of the mouth - am I right? Looks like a place where chips'll pack in.
EDIT: I think I need to lay down the iron in that miter plane, too - make it a very-low-angle plane.
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Post by mapleman on Nov 4, 2009 21:32:15 GMT -6
i think yer right tim --- low angle is almost a necesity for shooting. one can make do with a standard angle --- but the miter plane should be low angle. I just checked and the Stanley #9 (not to be confused with Hoppes #9) has the iron bedded at 20degrees.
as for th emouth - i dunno. the ultimate is to have an adjustable mouth on every plane since we sometimes use one plane for two different purposes. of course that is a logistical issue and a strength issue.
also - how important do you figure the mouth will be with the slight concave shape of the sole??? certainly still important - but i do not think quite as essential to have a very tight mouth... waddyafrink?
j
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 4, 2009 21:56:31 GMT -6
i think yer right tim --- low angle is almost a necesity for shooting. one can make do with a standard angle --- but the miter plane should be low angle. I just checked and the Stanley #9 (not to be confused with Hoppes #9) has the iron bedded at 20degrees. as for th emouth - i dunno. the ultimate is to have an adjustable mouth on every plane since we sometimes use one plane for two different purposes. of course that is a logistical issue and a strength issue. also - how important do you figure the mouth will be with the slight concave shape of the sole??? certainly still important - but i do not think quite as essential to have a very tight mouth... waddyafrink? j Mmmmm... now I got lost. Concave shape of the sole? I may've led ya wide by not being clear there... the sole's still flat in all these planes, it's just stepped. Like this (exaggerated):  EDIT: I'm counting on my low-angle planes being swung alla' way down to 15 degrees, right or wrong - we'll see how well that works out in practice. I hadn't flashed on the adjustable-mouth idea... but it's well worth considering - at least for some planes. |
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 4, 2009 22:14:33 GMT -6
I've never seen a hand plane with a bottom like that! ... it would really work?! |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 5, 2009 9:17:04 GMT -6
Better than any standard flat-bottomed plane, Joe! Guaranteed. It's a very small step, only one to two thousandths of an inch deep, just enough for a respectable shaving. The iron's edge is set exactly level with the heel's level, which places it one to two thousandths below the toe's level. The toe can be used to start the plane on the edge of a board, the edge follows it & begins the 1-2 thou shaving. The heel follows exactly behind the edge, maintaining that depth.
It works a lot like a chisel or bullnose plane, but on a much larger scale. Also like a road grader in a different sense... or a powered jointer. We all know how well a jointer works...
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 5, 2009 10:09:31 GMT -6
OK... only 1-2 thousanths! That makes better sense... I can see how it would be better! Cool! Are you going to make your planes that way?  ;D |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 5, 2009 10:14:55 GMT -6
I am, I am - which is why fettling by the user can't be an option & voids the warranty. So... I'll just take extra precautions to surface grind the sole of every plane with the whole mechanism adjusted & locked down as it should be to prestress the plane - then it'll be "factory fettled" to high precision. |
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Nov 5, 2009 10:22:39 GMT -6
Very cool idea, Timmer. One of the things a lot of folks don't know is that a hand plane wants to make a concave surface from end to end. Because the cutting edge of the blade protrudes below the flat surface of the sole, it initially wants to cut deeper and deeper, but as the heel of the place drops into the depression created by the cut, the blade starts taking a shallower and shallower cut. That is why longer planes are used for jointing, but even with longer planes if you continue just planing the whole length of the board it will create a concave edge. Even a long plane does not automatically make a coplanar edge. You must continuously check the edge and concentrate your planing efforts toward removing the high areas.
By setting the plane up similar to a tailed jointer with the outfeed end on the same plane as the cutting edge and the infeed slightly below (or above depending on how you look at it) you should be able to actually get the plane automatically making a coplanar surface from end to end.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 5, 2009 13:52:24 GMT -6
Very good! Yes, I think it's common procedure to flatten the bottom as part of the 'tuneup', etc. Yes? Could not do that anymore w/o ruining the plane!  |
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Post by mapleman on Nov 6, 2009 19:31:35 GMT -6
alright - that is a big old DOH DOH DOH DOH for me sorry - you had typed "stepped" before. and i just took the thought i initially had an ran with it... HOWEVER - can we clarify one question i have - is the step at the toe go right to the iron? so that, theoretically, one adjusts the iron to be flush with the heel, thus being a couple thou out and proud of the toe? like this? ----/____ dashes are toe, slash is iron, underscores are heel... sorry i am so crude --- i have not played with sketchup yet... is that where you are headed Timmer? |
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 6, 2009 19:55:27 GMT -6
That's the way I understand it to be...
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I have always wondered... I have seen some with hang holes - but figgered they were "user-added". I gotta go check the blood and gore... 
