Scraper Plane thoughts and questions

[admin]

I've been kicking an idea around, and I need some help. I need to know a few things, and I figure if y'all don't know it, it aint worth knowin.

How thick is the iron of a scraper plane?

How much is it normally bowed? Lets say we take a 2" wide iron, lock the corners down to a plate of steel somehow, and bow it out in the middle, how far will the center be away from the plate that holds the corners? I'm unsure of just how curved that iron needs to be to work properly.

Most photos I've seen of scraper planes show the iron tilted away from the rear tote at the top. How much angle is there there? It looks like it's about 6 or 8 degrees out of vertical.

Is there a preferred method of locking the iron in place? I'm thinking for simplicity sake, a wooden compression wedge would be ideal, but I'm unsure about this.

Any other info you fellas would care to offer will be much appreciated.

TJ.

[TDHofstetter]

I sure wish I had good answers... but a scraper plane is one of the few things I don't own.

The iron can't be any thicker than... maybe... 3/64" would be my best guess, or it wouldn't flex easily enough to be used.

The bow (based on my experience with card scrapers) will be minimal, barely enough to keep the corners of the iron off the work (where they'd make gouges). More bow will result in more aggressive scraping in the center, less bow will result in a flatter final surface.

Again based on my card-scraper experience, the tilt of the iron will be closely related to the formed burr and the aggressiveness the user wants... AND the nastiness of the wood being scraped. Highly figured woods will want a more vertical angle (shallower cut with the burr) OR a smaller burr. The burr CAN be totally missing for highly figured woods, in which case the iron can have a negative angle - angling toward the operator - resulting in a completely negative rake at the scraping edge.

I've seen mostly thumbscrews holding the irons in the scraper planes I've seen - usually not only to hold the iron in place but also to bow it in the middle. A wooden wedge would work just fine, long's it provides for adjustment of the iron - extension, angle, and bow.

With luck, somebody who actually owns one'll pipe up & correct me where I'm completely off-base.

[sawduster]

My favorite scraper plane is the Stanley #80 like this,


It is bedded about 15 degrees off of perpendicular and has a thumb screw for controlling the amount of bow in the blade. It uses a negative angle, i.e. the top of the blade leans toward the direction you move the plane to take a shaving. The factory blade for it is maybe 1/32" thick. Unlike card scrapers, the blade for the #80 has the cutting edge beveled at 45 degrees creating a "sharp" edge and the burr is turned from that edge. Once you get the blade locked in, you simply adjust the thumb screw for the amount of bow you want to create the shaving you want.

The scraper planes configured like the Stanley #12 and it's relatives


or the Stanley 112


are, in my opinion, overly complex and difficult to use. The angle of the blade to the sole of these planes is adjustable which turns a simple tool into an unnecessarily complex one requiring too much fiddling.

[tw]

I own a scraper plane and a cabinet scraper and rarely use either. Simply because I mostly work softwood.

Scraper planes come in a lot of different versions. The blade thickness very a lot between different makes. Most have som kind of screw clamp to hold the blade. My scraper plane is built for holding the blade flat and instead the corners of the edge are rounded over when filing. The cabinet scraper does bow it's blade which is an ordinary card scraper.

The most basic scraper plane to make would be a wooden one. The old wooden scraper planes ara made like a coffin smoother except that the bed slopes backwards. The wedge holds the blade like in any wooden bench plane but the angle of the whole thing is different of cause. There is no cap iron. The mouth is usually very wide and the front of the whole aperture slopes away from the blade in order to help clearing the shavings. I would try making the blade from a piece if old sawmill gangsaw blade or one of the wear plates fould in mink feed pumps.

[tw]

Well....Jerry posted while I wrote and I do agree rhat that simple cabinet scraper is the one I actually use. My German made 112 equivalent sits in a cabinet waiting for times to come.

[TDHofstetter]

Fweeze. I got so bent up thinkin' that I don't own a scraper plane but DO use card scrapers... combined with all this talk about 'em... combined with the storm of hardwood cabinets I'm to build over the winter... and got excited for a moment & went lookin' on eBay. Spotted a couple 80s with current bids around $10...

...and then I got to thinkin' about Duc's HP suggestion. Why WOULDN'T I make one? Wouldn't that be a suitable first prototype plane? Sure seems like it - easy to make, even. Say... a brass sole and steel body, maybe turned brass handles. Would round handles work well, or do they need to be clamshelled for control? I could turn ONE round, then split it & hollow it out, lock it in place with a pin. Thoughts?

[sawduster]

I'd say that a scraper plane would be the most forgiving of any plane you might make. As for handles, what ever would be comfortable to use. The clam shells on the #80 suit me fine, but round ones would work as well. I'm generally not using a bunch of downward force on the plane to get it to work, at least not as much as a regular hand plane, so I don't know that control is an issue.

I say, go for it!! ;D

[dcarter636]

Tim, the #80 cabinet scraper handles are not so much gripped as pushed with a light grip. I apply light vertical force to the handles so a large top surface is more comfortable than a smaller diameter round handle ( the handle is approx 1" radius, I'll check later today). The working force is applied by one's thumbs pressing at the intersection of the top of the sole and back of the blade platen.

The blade is 1mm thick with a 45 degree relief, which facilitates the formation of a very manly cutting burr, and the bow screw acts mainly as a depth adjuster.

[TDHofstetter]

Good info there! So... the thumbs rest in the kinda' pockets on either side of the bow screw? Cool - I can do that! Lessee. Note to self - 1" ball end mill to form thumb rests.

[rhull]

Oct 31, 2009 14:04:24 GMT -6 sawduster said:

My favorite scraper plane is the Stanley #80

Interesting. I find the Stanley #80 to be very finnicky; either it takes too aggressive a "cut", or it's barely touching the stock. I find it extremely easy to get chatter unless I'm pulling/pushing it very, very fast with a lot of force.

Edit: I might be one of the few people here who has one of these...
www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48431&cat=1,41182,48945

I wouldn't have bought it for myself. It was either a Christmas or Anniversary present from my wife from last year. Sadly, I haven't had a chance to use it on a real project, so I can't speak to the use.

[dcarter636]

I apply light vertical force to the handles so a large top surface is more comfortable than a smaller diameter round handle ( the handle is approx 1" radius, I'll check later today).

I checked the radius of the top surface of the handles and it is more like 3/4". More significantly I found that I curl my fingers up into the hollow bottom of the grips, otherwise one's knuckles truly would drag on the work surface.

[TDHofstetter]

Very much like my spokeshave, then. Cool - I'll count on a 3/4" radius for starters & adjust from there if it doesn't seem right.

Thanks!

[Ruffnek]

Tim, I think a cabinet scraper is a much more achievable goal than an infill plane...especially for a first attempt. I'm sure you can make one and it will be very well done. I'm tired of burning my thumbs with a card scraper.

Put me down for a low digit serial No. when you get the prototype completed.

And, if you ever get around to making infill shoulder planes, put me down for one of those, too. ;D