Finishing Cherry -- What should I know?

[beagles]

I am building a woman's dresser from solid cherry. She desires a darker finish.

I have always heard that cherry is prone to blotching... and I think I found it on some small samples we are using to test colors.

Can you give any guidance to keep me out of trouble?

Thanks.

BTW, just like the Monty Python skit where they described the origins of the airline industry as beginning with the invention of the airplane ticket, I started this dresser with the dust panels between drawers. Makes sense to me.

[TDHofstetter]

So far I've had good luck with "Cherry" Watco over natural cherry. Shake or stir the can like CRAZY before you use it, 'cause the solids settle badly.

Now... SOMEPLACE out there I got it for like $23/gallon. Lessee if I can round that up.

EDIT: There it is:

www.hardwareworld.com/Cherry-Danish-Oil-1-Gal-pEC0U6G.aspx

Yes, it's real.

-- Tim --

[Joe Lyddon]

The Following May help you...

Knipfer Rude and Crude:
www.woodworkstuff.net/KfinRude3.html

www.woodworkstuff.net/KfinRude2.html

www.woodworkstuff.net/KfinRude.html

www.woodworkstuff.net/dkshellT.html

All located on:
www.woodworkstuff.net/woodidxfin.html

[TDHofstetter]

Hey, waitaminnit - I know Howard Acheson... somehow, from somewhen.

[Joe Lyddon]

Howie has some finishing features under General Finishing... at very top... Of my Finishing page... in previous post.

[TDHofstetter]

Sure seems to me he'n I've had some conversations. Been a while now, though.

[Joe Lyddon]

Yes, it seems like he dropped in not too long ago...

... just can't remember when... (getting too old, I guess... ;D )

[Ruffnek]

The R&C finishing method is a staple over at the WWA forum.

Howad Acheson is on most all of the forums, usually responding to posts about finishing. He posted occassionally over at ww.com, too.

Jim, if you are planning on staining the Cherry, then there should be a wood conditioner available from whatever company manufactures the stain...they will be compatible with each other and the conditioner will greatly reduce the propensity for blotching.

The other way to prevent blotching is to apply a seal coat of shellac and then sand the surface after it dries before applying the stain.

Both methods do the same thing...fill the wood pores so that they don't collect excess pigment and cause blotching. However, the conditioner is slightly less labor intensive as no sanding is required before applying the stain...just flood it on, wipe off the excess and apply the stain while it is still wet.

[Leo Voisine]

I made a sign a year or so ago for somebody and they wanted specifically "General Finishes" "Warm Cherry" stain on it.

Personally I do not stain my stuff - but I will admit the Warm Cherry looked "really" nice.

[rhull]

Nov 26, 2009 5:51:07 GMT -6 Ruffnek said:

The other way to prevent blotching is to apply a seal coat of shellac and then sand the surface after it dries before applying the stain.

I use the shellac method. I find it works best with blonde shellac (if you use a darker shellac, that can kind of blotch too as it gets absorbed).

[Beamer]

Dewaxed shellac!!!

Be sure it's DEWAXED if you go that route

[Stretch]

I've finished a lot of cherry and I've never worried about the blotching. In fact I think the blotching can add to the beauty and character of the piece if you use it to your advantage. The number one thing I do is not try to get all my color from the stain. You want to build up your color. So start with a stain that is lighter than the final color you are shooting for. If the blotching is too pronounced, you can lighten the blotched areas by wiping them with lacquer thinner. After the stain dries you want to seal it and lightly sand your seal coat to remove any dust nibs. Then to add more color, you can use a glaze, which is really just a stain applied to a sealed surface. I make my own glazes from UTC tinting colors available from Hood finishing products. I mix them in a 1:1 ratio with paint thinner to make glaze. Wipe the glaze on and wipe it off. Some will be left on the surface and you let it dry. Then you seal it with another coat of finish. I use lacquer applied with spray equipment. At this point if you still need more color, you can do another coat of glaze, or spray on a tinted top coat. When you have the color you like, add a couple of layers of clear finish. Sand off any imperfections and add a final coat.

This method requires some experimenting on scrap to find a color you like but the advantages are that your cherry will retain its natural highs and lows instead of looking monochromatic and fake. In my opinion, it make for a much more beautiful finish.

[sachbvn]

Jim,

I really like to work with Cherry myself - I do not prefer to stain it - I like the natural color best, well - maybe some oil - but no stain or dyes. I made two pieces for my folks that they wanted to match the existing woodwork if at all possible - so I ended up using General Finishes "Georgian Cherry" gel stain - it worked awesome.... easy to work with - easy to apply, clean, not messy.

I found, for best results, work in small areas - a little but of stain at a time and blend the areas as you go.... in my experience the stain really worked itself into the wood, so I didn't really need to wipe any off - just be careful you aren't putting globs on.... you'll know instantly because they show up like black streaks. The other thing - it starts to dry fairly quick, thus I strongly recommend the small areas at a time route.

This is a picture of what it came out like for me..... it is Cherry with the finish, followed by poly. There is no sealer, primer, conditioner, whatever.... I've (luckily) never really had a problem with blotching Cherry regardless of how I finish it.

Oh yeah - and the table is actually a little darker than the picture shows - the picture almost looks a little red.



Zac

[sawduster]

Zinnser Seal Coat is a 2# cut of dewaxed blonde shellac available in gallons at the big box stores. It is ideal for sealing before staining. Like Cody said, apply a coat, let it dry, then sand lightly. You want to get the shellac off of the very surface but leave it in the pores. This seals off the more open pored areas which absorb more stain causing the blotching.

[beagles]

So you lives and you learns...

I went off and got some of the Watco Danish oil suggested by Tim and coated a scrap piece. "Blotching" is not a fair term to use. If you look down the grain, there is a uniform coloring. If you look across the grain, what you really see is different reflectivity of the light from one spot to another. "Iridescent" does not do it justice, but that is sort of the idea.

I also got some shellac and will play with that using Minwax stains. That is a project for another day.

I also came across some gel stain, but that is a $14 commitment and I would like to have a better idea of the desired color before I invest in cans of that stuff that might just sit there for years.

And I have a can of the wood conditioner suggested by Cody. I will try that too.

More to come.

[Stretch]

Nov 27, 2009 17:02:26 GMT -6 beagles said:

If you look down the grain, there is a uniform coloring. If you look across the grain, what you really see is different reflectivity of the light from one spot to another. "Iridescent" does not do it justice, but that is sort of the idea.

What you are referring to is called chatoyance. You get it a lot with cherry, maple, and sometimes knotty alder. You typically get it from the same grain areas that are prone to blotching with stain. If you use too dark a stain it tends to ruin the effect. This is why I like to build up the color using glazes and tinted topcoats.

[sawduster]

Don't the glazes cover up the grain? My experience with them is that they are sorta like thinned down paint.

[Stretch]

Nov 28, 2009 9:43:32 GMT -6 sawduster said:

Don't the glazes cover up the grain? My experience with them is that they are sorta like thinned down paint.

They can, if you put them on too thick. The idea with glazes is to create high and low tones. So you apply them, wipe most of it off while it's still wet. Then after it's dry, scrub with steel wool to get your tone the way you like it. So if you've got a nice flat area with some awesome grain, you scrub most of the glaze off. Then if you need more color, that's where the tinted top coat comes in. Shellac is good for this as well as tinted lacquer. You just have to be careful if you're brushing on, not to drag the glaze around if your sealer coat has a solvent that will dissolve the glaze. This is why I will always suggest investing in some sort of spray equipment. If you've already got a shop sized compressor, a cup gun to spray sealer coats is relatively cheap. I've even sprayed off my pancake compressor before, you just have to be patient while it builds the pressure up.