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Post by Ruffnek on Nov 23, 2009 22:01:00 GMT -6
There's a thread over at IAP (Marketing & Shows) where a poster stated that wood pens were not what the buying public preferred but that acrylic and other man-made types actually sold better.
His position was that only us woodworkers actually appreciated an Afzelia Burl or Spalted, Curly Maple or whatever pen and that the majority of buyers cared nothing for exotic or unique woods.
He said that they were more interested in color than wood type. The guy also said that he had grossed over $100,000 per year doing craft shows so he must have some idea what he is talking about.
It doesn't affect me much either way since I don't market many pens but I wondered if anyone else had noticed this or had a differing opinion.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 23, 2009 22:05:04 GMT -6
The whole thing didn't ring true to me... ... I just forgot about it...  ;D We KNOW what we like whether he does or not! ;D ;D  |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 23, 2009 23:38:05 GMT -6
In general... the general public's appreciation of wood can be summed up in a phrase we Vermonters hear a lot from the tourists: "Ooo, LOOK! A TREE!". The general public looks at walnut and says "Ooo, nice color! Nice pattern! Ooo, SMOOTH!". They look at kingwood and say "Ooo, nice color! Nice pattern! Ooo, SMOOTH!". They look at cocobolo and say "Ooo, nice color! Nice pattern! Ooo, SMOOTH!". To the general public, wood is wood. Dark wood, light wood, straight wood, curly wood. Look at smokin' pipes - even a cavendish aficionado cares little whether his pipe is made of amboyna burl or ziricote - a corncob smokes about the same, after it's broken in. ...but certain swirly stuff catches the general public's eye. Swirly or sparkly stuff. As a people, we're kinda' like crows in that regard. So... stuff that looks kinda' like a metallic lava lamp or like wrinkled satin - folks like to grab stuff like that. Go figure, since that sorta' stuff can be pumped out by the trillion in any halfway respectable factory, with none of the heart invested by an actual penbodger. But WE - WE know what WE like, we who appreciate the fine woods. Does that make us kinda' like... connoisseurs?  |
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Post by Ruffnek on Nov 24, 2009 0:53:19 GMT -6
But WE - WE know what WE like, we who appreciate the fine woods. Does that make us kinda' like... connoisseurs? I know that we (woodworkers) appreciate beautiful wood, but this was about what the general public likes...and buys. BTW, this opinion was in a thread started by Monty over there. Anyway, the poster said pretty much what you said...the average person looks at wood, any wood, as something that grows on trees and is as common as dirt. I went back and re-read the thread and he said that of the $100,000 in annual pen sales, less than $3000 of it was wood pens...the rest were from man man-made materials. I've seen some beautiful, finely crafted acrylic or cast pens, too so it isn't only wood pens that get TLC from the maker. In the case of cast pens, there's actually more hand work that goes into making it than buying a pre-cut, sometimes pre-bored wood pen blank. I just thought it was interesting that in this one person's experience (albeit broad experience) synthetics outsold wood pens...97-3. That's an eye-opening stat, especially for those who regularly sell pens. |
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Post by boodrow on Nov 24, 2009 2:34:15 GMT -6
Cody u know as well as I to sell a 100k worth of pens leaves a couple options , the man dont sleep and makes pens 24/7, or he gets a tremedous price for them or option 3 I like the best, he is full o chit.
Last show I sold 11 pens , 9 wood , 2 man made. Also the man made was the last pen I sold at nye quitin time on sunday.
Boodrow
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Post by dicklaxt on Nov 24, 2009 3:09:58 GMT -6
True enough the trend certainly is migrating to synthetics in many markets .I think it is because the patterns are predictable and people understand hey look what so and so did out of that old piece of plastic(catch all).The swirls and unpredictable grain of a burl is not apreciated by the non wood lover.Grain patterns and color of exotics is to us the WW desirable but to the masses it doesn't mean much.
100K$ a year is possible but whew
Theres a guy(penturner) I know of who owns a pharmacy in an uppercrust neighbor hood and he displays and sells his pens there.He doesn't care if they sell or not as he is financially secure so it puts a high end dollar ($100 plus)on them and sells them
but its a limited market and probably more a novelty item to his buyers.
Sonny did quite a study on making the move to production turning and wholesaling pens to individual bussiness owners,he even got down to setting across the table from some and in the end he opted out as the profit margin and volume wasn;t there.
dick
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Post by Ruffnek on Nov 24, 2009 3:16:02 GMT -6
Here's a link to the thread...http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53819
There are a couple others who support the guys contention that wood pens don't sell as well as the synthetics.
I may have to make some synthetics for our next show, Boodrow. ;D
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Post by boodrow on Nov 24, 2009 5:18:03 GMT -6
Cody I guess it is possible , damn thats a lot of pen turning! I have several of the acrylic blanks ive never bothered turning before. Guess I should dust um off and turn um.
On the other hand the poly resin stoppers I made , most people tell me they perfer the wood over the poly??? And the sales have shown that to be true.
Boodrow
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Post by dicklaxt on Nov 24, 2009 6:03:40 GMT -6
Be it known that I am posting a link to a web site and not the pics,this fellow is kinda locked into Copy Right stuff,,,, This fits along with the discussion on synthetics,somesort of resin and cactus fibers who would have thunk it but it sure is appealing.Check the photo Gallery a bit of Mesquite and synthetics mixed together,,,,,,,it is attractive stuff www.turntex.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=80dick |
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Post by sachbvn on Nov 24, 2009 7:24:33 GMT -6
I'd agree with the idea "most" people like the acrylics more than the neat curly exotics we, as woodworkers, LOVE to make.
BUT - those are probably the same people who buy particle board furniture and don't much know the difference......
Honestly - if someone didn't really care for my pens, and I'm sure I will encounter those people, that's ok - this is a hobby, not my job. I make pens for me...... I can't see myself seriously doing craftshows (hell, who knows really) so.... I don't see myself ever having to "cater to the customer" ya know? I mean - when you are plunking down money for craftshows and the expenses that go with them.... ya gotta turn some profit...and if acrylics sell..... go for it. I personally, love wood far better..... there are some neat designs, but in general - most swirly acrylic stuff doesn't not spark an interest at all.
I did see an actual (I think) snakeskin cast into a pre-tubed clear resin.... that was crazy cool!!
Zac
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Doug B
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Post by Doug B on Nov 24, 2009 11:44:18 GMT -6
I hate turning synthetics, but I do some anyway because they can be very unique. I try for unique things to offer in my pens.
But I enjoy all aspects of using wood much more than using synthetics, so that is what I do most of. I think most of us are that way as well. After all, if we started doing things we did not like to do just for the profit, then it becomes a job and not a hobby, right?
I'll continue to do things that interest me most... sprinkled in with things I don't care to do but that I think the customers might like.
And, when you do run into the odd person who really appreciates wood, it is very satisfying to see that appreciation.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 24, 2009 12:09:56 GMT -6
100K$ a year is possible but whew. Well, as Tim would say,: Productive days per year = 365 less 52 (Selling Days, 1 day per week)... = 313 production days per year. $100,000 of annual sales divided by an average guessed price of $25 per pen... = 4,000 pens per year. Divided by 313... = 13 pens made per Productive Day... times average time to make a pen... (fill-in the Hours per pen figure) ;D = Hours per Productive Day to make pens. 24 less Pen Making Hours... = Time to spend the $100,000 he made selling those pens! (if a negative figure, he must quickly Donate the balance to Charity) ;D ;D ;D Of course, the senario could be refined to allow for Sleeping, Eating, Driving, Show setup/tear down, and Chitting Time... OK, how FAST must this guy make pens?  OOPS! He only sells pens 1 day a week or 52 days per year... That equates to selling 77 pens per Selling Day per week. How does he do it?! ;D ;D ... Oh, and we haven't calculated the Net Profit or Loss yet! Let's see... electricity, wood, CA glue, sanding, finishing, drilling, cutting, Auto expense (Depreciation, Insurance, fuel, maint.), Show equipment to display said pens (Deprec. etc.), Pen kits, and don't forget Labor! ... Nah... I'll let someone else figure that out! ;D |
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Doug B
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Post by Doug B on Nov 24, 2009 12:12:02 GMT -6
My guess is that he gets a lot more than $25.00 per pen.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 24, 2009 12:16:05 GMT -6
My guess is that he gets a lot more than $25.00 per pen. OK... use whatever you think... Darn, we're going to have to setup a Spreadsheet for this application!! ;D |
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Post by maxwellsmart007 on Nov 24, 2009 12:20:44 GMT -6
There are a lot of people who charge well over $100 for a pen, Joe...some even charge closer to the 500 dollar mark or more! I guess they live in lucrative sales markets.... As far as acrylic vs. wood, it depends on the year...I found that one year, acrylic pens were what everyone wanted...then the next year, it was just the wood ones... The important thing is the story with wood - they really don't seem to care about the TYPE of wood, but rather the history behind it... I.E. - This is made of Koa, which only grows in Hawaii.. or made from oak that resided at the bottom of an Irish bog for 4000 years... or a naturally purple wood that changes colour from heat and/or the sun, before eventually turning brown.. To me, the wooden ones are the coolest - and therefore more likely to be desirable because I'm better at promoting them! |
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Doug B
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Post by Doug B on Nov 24, 2009 12:27:50 GMT -6
Yeah I agree that it sounds a little bit questionable, no matter how much he gets for his pens. Pretty impressive if he is really grossing 100K per year selling pens.
I guess that is one reason I don't socialize over at IAP. It is a wonderful resource for pen turners, but I just can't relate to folks who are at that level of pen making.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 24, 2009 12:28:22 GMT -6
OK, refine the senario with your best Guesses...
What is the resulting Time & Profit per pen?
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Doug B
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Post by Doug B on Nov 24, 2009 13:49:23 GMT -6
My best guess is that the guy is exaggerating - either a little or a lot. But the bottom line is that if the public prefers synthetic pens over wood pens, they are going to be disappointed with my offerings  |
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Post by bradthenailer on Nov 24, 2009 15:01:08 GMT -6
My best guess is that the guy is exaggerating - either a little or a lot. Naww, c'mon, stop it! People don't exaggerate online. Especially on a forum.  |
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Post by oakridgeboy on Nov 24, 2009 20:37:33 GMT -6
It's been in my(limited) experience that if the buyer knows anything at all about wood,then they seem to prefer and appreciate the wooden ones. The vast majority,sadly, seem to be drawn to the bright swirls and colours of the man-made materials.The only contradiction to that theory seems to be if you have a story about the wood( for example-Sh,don't tell my wife but that pen is made from her favorite Lilac bush in the back yard) !
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;D
