Bookcase shelves

[rnemtp3]

Well I have been tinkering with little items for the past little bit and my wife has finally decided that I just might be able to build a bookcase. The area she wants it to go is on a wall in the living room under the chair rail, that is 38" off the floor. She has shown me how long she wants it. It is 45". I was just going to make it 48" as I will be using 3/4" ply for the carcass and shelves. Then put a face frame on it. So the question, is 48" to long for a shelf with no other support than the dado on each end and the face frame? It will be painted so the face frame is going to be pine. It will hold kids toys and books to get them off the floor.

Anyway, I hope it will be painted. I made a little kids table and bench for my mom (who babysits for us and my sister) and did my first staining job with some cherry stain and my wife really like that look. I am getting ready to do the poly finish today, wish me luck. I am hoping that she will just want paint because it will help me hid flaws on this project and I can use the wood I already have.

On a side since I mentioned it earlier, that little bench was made using some left over wood that the previous owner had in the garage. It looks like a pine plank that he had stained with something and it was pretty scratched up. I decided to sand it down which led to a mess. The board was wavy on top and I was getting no where sanding. I tried my little block plane. I have just started learning to sharpen some cheap chisels and that plane using scary sharp. It really made a difference and I was getting some neat little shavings after a few adjustment. I could easily go the knuckle dragging route, that was alot of fun.

Anyway, thanks for the help about the shelves. Also any other advice is welcome because if this goes well I can justify some more tool purchases. Thanks again.

[fredbelknap]

You might consider putting a back it it and dado the shelves into the back. You could fasten the shelves to the face frame. A small ledger under the shelves would help. If you make the shelves with just 3/4" plywood it will probably sag if someone puts something heavy in the middle.

[admin]

I agree with Fred, a heavy item in the middle might sag the shelf. So, you could either mount small shelf ledges in the back panel, or do a shallow dado in the back panel.

I'd go with something other than plywood for the shelves, even hardboard is an improvement over plywood.

[TDHofstetter]

You CAN also use 1/4" or 3/8" plywood and (carefully laying out locations) nail through that plywood into the back edges of the shelves. Even at that, though, it's best to add a ledger under the rear edge of each shelf. That ledger could be attached to the shelf before the back goes on, or could be attached to the back before the shelves go in.

The backing will help a LOT in keeping the shelving from racking sideways out of square.

[cabinetman]

You could use 1/4" plywood for the back. The back of the cabinet can be rabbeted to accept the back. With a tight fit, and brad nailed/stapled, that will square the back. A face frame can square the front.

You could dado the shelves to the sides, or make them adjustable. What will stiffen up the shelves is to add a front and rear edging to the length of the shelves. Being plywood it would be edged with something anyway. Make it 3/4"x 1 1/2" to 2" high. Glue and clamp them to the front and rear edge.

If you desire adjustable shelves, and want the front edge to be flush with the FF, hold the edging short to be the distance between the stiles of the FF. If you dado the shelves in, it would be part of the FF, which would stiffen the shelf (by fastening through the FF into the shelf.

No need to dado into a back (especially if it's 1/4"). Just staple through the back into the shelf (if the shelves are to be fixed).

[sawduster]

Chances are that at some time in the future those shelves might easily be recommissioned to hold more books (you're calling it a book case now) and they will need to be stiffer than for holding some toys and a few books.

I like to put a ledge on the back side of the piece that covers the edge of the plywood. The ledge only needs to be maybe 1/4" wide but glued well to the front of the shelf. This will increase the stiffness of the shelf considerably.

I would also suggest that you give a lot of thought to making the shelves adjustable.

[triplefreak]

36" is usually the max width for 3/4" ply. You can double it up, and add some iron on edging to the front of it to dress it up.

[dcarter636]

Attaching the shelf to the back panel will help reduce sag but the front is still likely to sag over time, especially when little feet use it as a step ladder. Adding a 1"x2" face frame element to the front edge of the shelf would substantially improve the stiffness, sag resistance, and look a tad more finished as well.

[rnemtp3]

Thanks guys. I was going to do a fixed shelf that is dadoed into the sides. The back was going to be 1/4 ply. I was debating if I should rabbit it in or just pull a Norm and put in a few brads to hold it while the glue dries. I will attach the face frame to the shelf in the front and will now add a little ledge as well. This is be as much of a practice project as it is anything. I guess you have to start somewhere.

If I tried to go the adjustable route with the shelves any suggestions on how to do it without buying the jig setup. Also, since the shelves would not be dadoed in or attached to a face frame would adding a soild front piece and ledge give it enough strength at 48"? The LOML is pretty insistant on that 48" length. She thinks that it would look to much like a box at 36"x36". I even suggested that I build two and put them together but she "saw" right through that since I would have to buy some more wood (and clamps, router bits, and other assorted things that I have been wanting). Well maybe next time if I can pull this off. I hope to get everything laid out and cut this weekend and maybe assembled next week. I attempt some pics too. Thanks for the help. Still so much to learn and try.

[TDHofstetter]

Adding a ledger at the rear and a drop face at the front will substantially stiffen up a shelf. It won't be quite as stiff that way as if it were doubled, but it'll still be pretty stiff & strong. There's no way to take ALL the droop out of a loaded shelf, so don't go off on that track - ya simply cannot chase it all the way down. You'll notice if it starts looking overloaded, and probably automatically keep it from getting loaded till it goes all camelbacked on ya.

If you decide to make the shelves adjustable, a quick & simple drilling template is pegboard. The hole spacing in pegboard is VERY REGULAR, and it's dirty cheap to buy. Wreck a hole, just slice off another strip & don't even pause in drilling.

[sawduster]

For our home office built in cases I made, I used the metal shelf standards similar to these.

[Joe Lyddon]

Yes, it seems like Norm used those on some cases a ways back...

Just a shallow groove to hold the metal guides & it's done... almost. ;D

You just have to be sure to get all of the strips matched! ;D