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Post by skoman on Nov 17, 2009 6:40:27 GMT -6
A friend asked me to make him a bar for his new man cave. He built a 16' x 32' stand alone building for watching sports, playing pool or throwing darts. The Bar is for looks only ...no libations  . I picked up some oak plywood from Lowe's for the carcass and low and behold the price code sticker has got "Made in China". We sure are getting into a sorry state when the lumber/wood we use has to come all the way over from China. Anyway, after handling the ply from store to truck to shop, I notice later in the evening that I started to break out in a rash on my right side of my face. Not really sure if it is a reaction with the China glue in the ply, but it sure has me thinking. Anyone else experience this? |
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 17, 2009 7:37:05 GMT -6
There's been quite a lot of discussion lately about the Chinese birch plywood out there - not so much about dermatological reactions to it, but that it's shot full of voids & isn't very uniform in thickness & has EXTREMELY thin veneer faces & is generally "shop" plywood. I haven't seen nor handled the oak.
Nobody knows very well what might be in Chinese plywood... and it's entirely possible they may have left something on it or in it that's responsible for your reaction. Maybe the veneer layer is from a species of oak with a lot of urushiol (the toxin in Poison Ivy), for example, or the glue, or just LOTSA' stuff.
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admin
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Post by admin on Nov 17, 2009 7:58:35 GMT -6
I hadn't noticed any rash, but with the sawdust from ANY kind of plywood, I sneeze like an asthmatic horse full of black pepper and ragweed.
Might be some kind of fungus in the wood, or a product of the sawdust. You get a rash, and I explode a little bit.
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Post by dcarter636 on Nov 17, 2009 8:09:05 GMT -6
I refuse to buy that stuff anymore. As Tim mentioned the veneer is too thin to sand or stain, practically translucent, and who knows what's inside it?
Fortunately we have a cabinet grade plywood shop an hour South of us in Denver. It's spendy but I'll live longer by not stressing over hidden defects that appear after a piece is finished.
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Nov 17, 2009 8:59:13 GMT -6
I too have been suckered in by the low pricing at the big box and purchased their chinese ply. I've had plys separate, lots of voids and actual warping occur. When compared to a nice quality plywood that you'll pay upwards of 60-70 per sheet for oak (in my area), it's astonishing. The good ply is well worth the price IMO. Thicker plys, no voids, great glue joints, in short, no problems.
I do use the BORG ply for shop carts when I can find some of the better looking stuff, which recently, has been poplar.
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Doug B
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Post by Doug B on Nov 17, 2009 9:50:29 GMT -6
When the Chinese had to quit putting Melamine in dog food, they had to put it somewhere. Maybe this is where it ended up |
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Post by Leo Voisine on Nov 17, 2009 16:08:27 GMT -6
I have heard from other sources that there has been problems with the adhesives used in making plywood in China.
They are not regulated bye the same EPA standards as the US. Hence one small reason they are cheaper than us.
If their business is affected by the harmful chemicals they use in their products they will change and use better chemicals. Hey - that's how capitalism works huh?
I heard a statement once recently about China manufacturing.
We can product 85% of your quality expectations for 30% the price.
Most Americans - WILL - continue to purchase Chinese made products because they want the price, and are satisfied with 85% quality. That is just a fact.
I have used the chinese hardwood plywood to build a workbench in my shop. It works as well as domestic birch ply for a lot less money.
Sorry to all the Buy Only "Made in America' people - but I would definately use it again. I did not have the rash problem.
Face it - China is here to stay - they will manufacture the worlds goods. They are now. And WE gave them the manufacturing processes - FREE.
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Nov 17, 2009 18:55:08 GMT -6
I think I read somewhere that that Chinese ply is actually not made in China but on factory ships owned by the Chinese and set up off our coasts. Since the raw material for the stuff comes from here, and the end product is sold here, no sense in doing the entire Pacific Ocean routine when they can do the work off shore on big boats.
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Beamer
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Post by Beamer on Nov 17, 2009 21:54:30 GMT -6
I think I read somewhere that that Chinese ply is actually not made in China but on factory ships owned by the Chinese and set up off our coasts. Since the raw material for the stuff comes from here, and the end product is sold here, no sense in doing the entire Pacific Ocean routine when they can do the work off shore on big boats. Now that's an interesting thought ... I'd like to learn more about that. Any idea where that might be found? I'll have to see if Google knows of anyplace. Makes economic sense .. wonder what they do - grab a buncha employees at a chinese port after stocking up on fuel/food/etc, row on over here and dock - pick up the materials and then row on out ... something about that doesn't jive but I can't put my finger on it ... maybe they just restock here? That'd probably cost more than the trip back to mainland china, though. Yep - i'm gonna have to look that one up  |
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Post by Leo Voisine on Nov 17, 2009 22:14:37 GMT -6
Remember that chinese sales dude trying to sell his Chinese plywood to us.
He thought we were some sort of woodworking business or something.
Peter Lion???
anyway - that was funny
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Post by woodmannie on Nov 18, 2009 9:34:42 GMT -6
I remember him. lol
I use the china crap for sheething, floors, crap like that.
For nice stuff, I go up the road another 1/2 hr and get nice baltic birtch ply. well worth the trip
Tom
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Post by triplefreak on Nov 18, 2009 16:19:33 GMT -6
Do a Google search on Chinese drywall. You'll be amazed, or you should be at least.
I'll bet it's the same problem.
I refuse to use anything made in China.
It takes quite a bit of doing, but it can be done.
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rrich
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Post by rrich on Nov 18, 2009 16:22:16 GMT -6
In one of the trade magazines, a NC furniture manufacturer was quoted as saying that the Chinese were selling furniture for about his cost of the oak.
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Post by CajunRider on Nov 18, 2009 20:11:44 GMT -6
Remember that chinese sales dude trying to sell his Chinese plywood to us. He thought we were some sort of woodworking business or something. Peter Lion??? anyway - that was funny Yup I remember him from a thread I started about Chinese plywood. I've recently got several sample of top grade Chinese plywood and they were excellent. However, the crappy plywood that HomeDepot and Lowes sell are full of void and warp easily. |
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Nov 19, 2009 9:06:29 GMT -6
Do a Google search on Chinese drywall. You'll be amazed, or you should be at least. I'll bet it's the same problem. I refuse to use anything made in China. It takes quite a bit of doing, but it can be done. It is getting to the point of being nearly impossible to find anything not made in China. The vast majority of all wood working machines are made there. I try to find stuff made in Taiwan instead, but that is getting more difficult as well. |
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Post by sachbvn on Nov 19, 2009 15:28:09 GMT -6
I've honestly thought "man, how cool would it be to have a store where all they sold was stuff made in the USA" - but... honestly - I don't know if a store like that could survive.... A) Some stuff is just extremely hard to find that is MADE IN USA - and B) It's going to cost more.
I would pay a little more for a lot of things if they were made in the USA compared to China or elsewhere.
Zac
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 19, 2009 15:53:50 GMT -6
Even a lot of Starrett stuff is Chinese these days...
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Post by triplefreak on Nov 19, 2009 16:34:41 GMT -6
Even a lot of Starrett stuff is Chinese these days... So is Jet, Shop Fox, Shop Craft, some Craftsman, & even some Powermatic stuff. My Grizzly lathe was made in China, and that's the one exception I have to the rule of no Chinese goods in my home. Heck it's getting hard to even find an American made light bulb anymore.  |
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Nov 21, 2009 7:45:43 GMT -6
I've honestly thought "man, how cool would it be to have a store where all they sold was stuff made in the USA" - but... honestly - I don't know if a store like that could survive.... A) Some stuff is just extremely hard to find that is MADE IN USA - and B) It's going to cost more. I'm guessing a place like LN also has more time into each piece and perhaps more investment in really good and accurate equipment. I would pay a little more for a lot of things if they were made in the USA compared to China or elsewhere. Zac Try Lie-Nielsen. It is cool and they have managed to stay in business for a quite a while. There's no rocket science there. They have higher labor, taxes, property expense and probably higher materials cost. You end up with something very well made but at a price that not a lot of us can afford when outfitting a shop. I have a few pieces from them I picked up over the years and it definitely trumps anything from China by a mile, but again, you have to be willing to pay. I would love to have a nice set of no.'s 2 - 8 and some of their specialties |
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Post by imahic on Nov 21, 2009 18:33:33 GMT -6
When we bought a new bedroom suite a couple of years ago, we bought from Thomasville. We thought it was made in the USA still. When asked though, the guy told us it was made in China with material from the US and made to their specifications. When they delivered it, the armoire wouldn't fit around the corner so I tried to take the top off to get it in the room. The inside was covered with all kinds of chinese writing. Couldnt tell you what it says though. Probably might not want to know. We wound up having to take one of the windows out and moving the armoire in that way. Next time the wife might listen to me when I tell her to be sure to measure it before she buys it? Nah, I doubt it...lol
Mike
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