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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 14, 2009 15:11:29 GMT -6
Ok, here's a low-angle (15-degree) bevel-up block plane. Iron is 1.5" wide. Plane is 6" long plus the adjuster knob. Any thoughts as to how it oughtta' be improved? The front knob seems a little lumpy to me, but it might be practical in use. Looks just a bit like a VW bug, doesn't it?
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JBark
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Post by JBark on Nov 14, 2009 15:39:13 GMT -6
I think it is a good looking/sized plane. I would offer that an adjustable mouth would help a plane like this, though the engineering of this is not easy. The front knob is a bit lumpy and you could definitely scale it down or reshape it. Make a quick mock-up in plywood and see how it feels to the hand. I find that with many tools the hand fits the tool after some use.
John
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 14, 2009 16:34:05 GMT -6
I think it looks really COOL...
Maybe rounding-over the top edges a little with maybe some indentations for fingers for a better feel? .. including the front knob to be more receiving to the 'hand'.?
I also think the knob at the rear is nice... out of the way... and looks easy to use.
I like it!
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Nov 14, 2009 18:08:01 GMT -6
I'd lose the front knob altogether. I can't see myself using two hands on a smaller plane like that. Even with my relatively small paws, I think they'd be crowded with both of them on it.
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Stretch
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Post by Stretch on Nov 14, 2009 18:46:40 GMT -6
I agree with Jerry. When I use a block plane it is always one handed. I like a surface I can push on with my first two fingers at the front of the plane.
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Post by dcarter636 on Nov 14, 2009 21:56:52 GMT -6
I think something is needed at the front but that knob is way too much.
An up swept feature or bump to accommodate some pressure from the index finger is good to have. I have always visualized a modest sleigh like front ramp-knob-thingie (RKT) for a infill block plane. Sometimes I do use two hands when it really matters on miserably hard wood and a RKT feature that would make a heel-of-the-palm rest would be useful.
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 14, 2009 22:12:02 GMT -6
Um... not including Dave yet... ... is this closer to what ya think ya might like to see? Figure the side indentations sandblasted to matte. Please disregard that chip in the nose of each plane; that's a SketchUp artifact that simply will NOT rub out.
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 14, 2009 22:14:29 GMT -6
I think something is needed at the front but that knob is way too much. An up swept feature or bump to accommodate some pressure from the index finger is good to have. I have always visualized a modest sleigh like front ramp-knob-thingie (RKT) for a infill block plane. Sometimes I do use two hands when it really matters on miserably hard wood and a RKT feature that would make a heel-of-the-palm rest would be useful. Let's see if I can find some sort of middle ground - maybe I can incorporate another curve or two.
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admin
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Post by admin on Nov 15, 2009 0:33:49 GMT -6
I've got small paws, so normally I do use two hands on the block, even though the second isn't fully engaged. I normally just put the side of my left hand on it to help hold it down. The other hand rides behind the plane, where you've incorporated the adjusted knob.
I don't know why, but I never can get enough 'traction' on the top of the plane when I use it one handed. I end up having a finger folded back against the front button because my hand slid forward a bit.
Small hands, what can I say...
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Beamer
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Post by Beamer on Nov 15, 2009 0:42:09 GMT -6
I like v.2 on this - no knob. Maybe even just a flat-ish spot for a slight downward and guiding pressure ... maybe a divot in the wood? Like ... a hollow - just 1/8-1/4" deep at most - something my left thumb can rest in while my knuckles curl under as a fence. Whatcha think about an adjustable mouth? Tricky with an infill, eh? I GOT DIBS ON THE FIRST ONE OF THESE!!!
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Post by dicklaxt on Nov 15, 2009 8:09:10 GMT -6
Hey Timmer if and when you start physicaly making these critters are you going to anodize some parts as the sketches show or is that for viewing clarity?
I like the idea of a thumb rest both left and right as someone mentioned too.
My father was a 4-H Club leader in woodworking instruction and he could plane a 1/8" bevel on the edge of a maple bread board that you couldn't best with a router,of course he took all that talent to the grave,I didn't get any.
dick
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 15, 2009 10:54:24 GMT -6
No anodizing - that'd be only aluminum. The planes as shown represent 416 stainless steel (silver color) and 360 brass (yellow color). I'm toying with the idea of 954 bronze for the lever caps, though. Beems - gimme a minnit, I'll come up with an effective adjustable mouth for infills... I may need to break out the block planes into two lines - one with the Peugot shape for one-hand use & one with a front hump for two-handed. Dang, and I still haven't worked up a good scraper plane yet - it's actually tougher to do than it looks without a lot of casting; peened dovetails don't lend themselves easily to the shape & bedding angle of a handled scraper, and neither does machining from billet.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 15, 2009 13:37:16 GMT -6
Tim, I think it looks "just right"... maybe just a slight indentation scoop-out for an Index finger in the front knob area... no biggy... I wouldn't worry about a scraper model right now... a Block & Smoothing plane, to me, would be a very nice "Start"... gotta save something for later... ;D I like the triangled knob... the fingers can easily fit into it and control it very nicely. ... a cool unique design...
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Nov 16, 2009 8:34:11 GMT -6
I like v.2 on this - no knob. Maybe even just a flat-ish spot for a slight downward and guiding pressure ... maybe a divot in the wood? Like ... a hollow - just 1/8-1/4" deep at most - something my left thumb can rest in while my knuckles curl under as a fence. Whatcha think about an adjustable mouth? Tricky with an infill, eh? I GOT DIBS ON THE FIRST ONE OF THESE!!! x2 on the divot. I need somewhere for my index finger to have purchase while I'm planing with one hand. This helps when coming in from the leading edge where you are starting with only the toe of the plan on the board.
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 16, 2009 13:35:20 GMT -6
Whatcha think about an adjustable mouth? Tricky with an infill, eh? Ya know what? I'm not gonna' do an adjustable mouth - not in an infill. I've fussed & fought trying to get an adjustable mouth to work - getting one to fit so it's removable (capable of being ASSEMBLED ONCE would be nice) & adjustable, got an adjustment mechanism worked out... ...but it won't tolerate the torque stress from peening. It weakens the sole too much, and the weakened sole will bow to relieve the peening stress, and then it won't move right & the sole won't be true. It's tough enough just coming up with a way to cut the mouth with square corners (gotta' hand-file each one)... I'm just gonna' offer the plane with either one mouth opening or two mouth openings, both fixed.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Nov 16, 2009 13:57:08 GMT -6
I'm just gonna' offer the plane with either one mouth opening or two mouth openings, both fixed. So, you just feed the Blade into the opening you want to use? You have two slots for the blade? That sounds like a unique way to skin the cat! ;D
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 16, 2009 14:06:37 GMT -6
Two planes - one with a small mouth, one with a large mouth like me.
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Beamer
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Post by Beamer on Nov 16, 2009 14:57:24 GMT -6
That sounds okay - I wondered if it'd be tricky to pull off an adjustable on an infill. It'd be nice if ya didn't have to peen it, eh? But then ... what do you do? mill it out of billet or cast it, I guess. How's about an adjustable "frog" so to speak? I suppose one could just shim a little behind the blade, eh? It may not be needed ... a fixed mouth may do just fine. I'm just brainstorming at this point
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Post by TDHofstetter on Nov 16, 2009 15:32:01 GMT -6
That sounds okay - I wondered if it'd be tricky to pull off an adjustable on an infill. It'd be nice if ya didn't have to peen it, eh? But then ... what do you do? mill it out of billet or cast it, I guess. How's about an adjustable "frog" so to speak? I suppose one could just shim a little behind the blade, eh? It may not be needed ... a fixed mouth may do just fine. I'm just brainstorming at this point Unfortunately, any opening in the sole allows the sole to flex a little more under the pressure of the peening. Some compensation is built into the peening process to accomodate springback, but there'll always be some side stress there 'cause of the wood being in place & the spacers holding the walls a fixed distance apart. Such are the quirks of an infill...
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Post by dcarter636 on Nov 16, 2009 19:23:52 GMT -6
I have a decent sized herd of cast iron block planes and can't really say that the absence of an adjustable mouth is a problem. Many of my best behaved favorites have fixed mouths with up to 1/16" gap from cutting edge to the front edge of the mouth.
Too often the adjustable feature is not quite co-planar to the rest of the sole, ergo many of my consistently ill behaved block planes have adjustable mouths.
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