Refile a crosscut saw as a rip saw?

[deathwish]

I have some el-crapola crosscut saws kicking around . . . and a couple so-so crosscut saws.

But not a one rip saw.

I was thinking that it wouldn't be too hard to refile a CC saw to a Rip configuration . . . I'll likely keep the tooth count high so there is not as much filing to do . . . is there any good reason not to?

I never seem to find any rips saws when I'm out rust-hunting.

[deathwish]

Well after going back through the el-crapola pile, I did find an 8 tpi with a cracked handle that very well could be a rip saw (it's actually dull enough I can't tell!) . . . I hit it with the ROS and a coat of wax . . . and a did a very mild jointing . . . then filed up about an inch worth of teeth . . . I think I may have my candidate!

I need to get it tuned up for this weekend . . . I'm hitting the road and going toa boy scout event where I'll be counseling the Carpentry Merit Badge . . . part of their requirements is to demo proper use of both a rip and crosscut saw.

Planes? I got that covered.

[tw]

I have refiled a crosscut saw as rip. The teeths were badly damaged and it took some thorough examination to find out that it was originally sharpened crosscut. The result is good.

[sawduster]

8 TPI is getting toward very slow cutting unless you're working some very hard wood. 7 is about max number recommended for full size saws with 8-15 found in back saws. But for teaching scouts it is probably just fine. Most ripped boards are cut wide of the line so they can be planed to it, and I think most of old timers avoided ripping as much as they could, using single bevel hatchets draw knives and such to work in close, then a very course hand plane to get it in closer. Probably why you don't find many full size rip saws in the wild. The "thumb handle" D8s were invariably filed rip from the factory as the reason for the thumb hole was to facilitate using both hands on the saw to reduce fatigue.

I have a theory that the table saw was invented before the radial or 'lectrical powered chop saw because rip sawing was tedious and time consuming by hand and something to speed that up was more important to those folks than cutting accurate angles with power (something they managed quite well hand saws, shooting boards and planes)

Likely a lot more than you wanted to know, but I get started on hand saws and can't seem to stop . . .

[deathwish]

Jun 8, 2010 11:50:50 GMT -6 sawduster said:

8 TPI is getting toward very slow cutting unless you're working some very hard wood. 7 is about max number recommended for full size saws with 8-15 found in back saws. But for teaching scouts it is probably just fine.

Likely a lot more than you wanted to know, but I get started on hand saws and can't seem to stop . . .

All good info . . . I can never have too much info!

I'll pass a little back to you . . . the Carpentry badge they will be working on is a 'special' merit badge. It was discontinued in 1952, when the skills were rolled into the Woodworking Merit Badge . . . it has been brought back (along with three others, Pathfinding, Tracking [used to be called Stalking] and Signaling) for the 100th anniversary of the BSA, and they are only available to do until the end of this year.

The original 1928 Merit Badge book (PDF at link) has some great 'primer' level information for hand tool use, as well as some small-scale plans (I kind of like the idea of a wall-mounted tool case!):
www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/2010_mb_carpentry.aspx

[sawduster]

It seems that the Signaling Badge was still around when I was in scouts. It was a toughy. We also had to learn Morse Code or Semi four to earn our 1st Class badge. That was tough for me because memorizing stuff has never been a strong suit for me.

[deathwish]

Jun 8, 2010 16:37:57 GMT -6 sawduster said:

It seems that the Signaling Badge was still around when I was in scouts. It was a toughy. We also had to learn Morse Code or Semi four to earn our 1st Class badge. That was tough for me because memorizing stuff has never been a strong suit for me.

Yep, Signaling MB was around in your day, but it has been discontinued since 1992 . . . they are having a tough time finding people to be counselors for it since most of the skills are pretty well archaic at this point . . . and unlike the skills used for Carpentry MB . . . there are not a lot of hobbyists that have ALL the skills. There are a few HAM operators that can understand Morse . . . but semaphore is a whole other ball o' twine!

www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/2010_mb_signaling.aspx

[imahic]

I can remember getting the signalling merit badge when I was in scouts but can't remember anything I learned....lol. Good on you to be working with the scouts, Mark. My son has been out of scouts for many years but I have thought about getting involved again to repay some of what I learned when I was a kid. I enjoyed being involved when my son was. In these days of video games and such it's nice to see some kids are actually still interested in scouting. It's a shame more parents aren't involved with things like this.

[deathwish]

Jun 9, 2010 9:48:21 GMT -6 imahic said:

I can remember getting the signalling merit badge when I was in scouts but can't remember anything I learned....lol. Good on you to be working with the scouts, Mark. My son has been out of scouts for many years but I have thought about getting involved again to repay some of what I learned when I was a kid. I enjoyed being involved when my son was. In these days of video games and such it's nice to see some kids are actually still interested in scouting. It's a shame more parents aren't involved with things like this.

Getting way off topic . . . but you may want to visit here:
www.scouting.org
There are lots of way to volunteer without making a weekly commitment to a Troop (which I do also ). Being a Merit Badge counselor can be done on an as needed basis, or at events. Helping with maintenance on buildings/campsites at local scout camps help the council spend money elsewhere in the program. I do all that and more . . . and it really isn't all that much work unless I want it to be . . . but it is totally worth every minute of time put in!

I'm a counselor for about 15 or so badges . . . including Woodcarving, Woodwork, and, as mentioned, Carpentry.

Calling your local council is a good place to start.
www.scouting.org/LocalCouncilLocator.aspx
Not that I'm trying to recruit or anything.

[sawduster]

Funny about that code sort of stuff. I can remember way back when, when one had to have a license to operate even a CB transmitter, and if I remember, the license exam required a certain level of proficiency in Morse code. HAM operators had to have even more.

I was in for quite a rude awakening when I returned to Scouting as an adult leader when my son was a scout from when I was in Scouting. All sorts of requirements had changed, camping was a totally different experience and so many other things. When I was in you had to have at least your First Class badge before you could begin working on Merit Badges. When my son went in, they were allowing them to work on Merit Badges as Tenderfeet.

[deathwish]

Jun 9, 2010 13:11:24 GMT -6 sawduster said:

Funny about that code sort of stuff. I can remember way back when, when one had to have a license to operate even a CB transmitter, and if I remember, the license exam required a certain level of proficiency in Morse code. HAM operators had to have even more.

I was in for quite a rude awakening when I returned to Scouting as an adult leader when my son was a scout from when I was in Scouting. All sorts of requirements had changed, camping was a totally different experience and so many other things. When I was in you had to have at least your First Class badge before you could begin working on Merit Badges. When my son went in, they were allowing them to work on Merit Badges as Tenderfeet.

Yep, they encourage the kids to start trying out the process as soon as possible . . . at Summer camp we usually encourage them to try for Art or Mammal Studies first year, unless they are a prolific swimmer or really interested in First Aid, then we steer them that way.

The sooner the better . . . there is better flow with the program if it doesn't 'shift gears' after the first year or so to a different set of expectations.

They are also allowed no to work simultaneously on Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class ranks . . . no need to wait until reaching one to work on the next. MB's happen at their own pace, but the other requirements for Star, Life and Eagle cannot be counted until they reach the rank below the one they are going to be working on.