A2 or O1

[fredbelknap]

Looking through Lee Valley catalog and drooling. Their planes come with an option of A2 or O1 metal. I read their explanation but still not sure which I would order. You metal heads got any ideas?

[sawduster]

A2 is much harder than O1 and thus maintains an edge longer. But A2 is also harder and more time consuming to sharpen than O1. If you maintain the edge, rather than letting it get broken down completely, this is not that big an issue.

[dcarter636]

In nearly every instance Rob Lee himself will advise you to go with O1. Personally I have no experience with A2, but when the guy who sells them doesn't push it I listen.

[Beamer]

Dave's experience is similar to mine with Ron Hock. He continually says "If the O2 blades don't give you any trouble, stick with 'em. Don't bother switching if you're happy with what you have."

[Leo Voisine]

A2 is harder - yes, but it is also "tougher" than O1.

Steels have many different characteristics.

Hardenability is one. This is what gives steel the ability to be hardened, thus A2 can be brought to a higher hardness then O1. That said, hardness also offers up "brittleness". Brittle means it can break more easily. Fortunately, A2 is also "Tougher" than O1. Toughness, means in a nutshell - less brittle.

Overall - A2 is a stronger steel then O1. I bought a set of A2 chisels from Lee Valley, but have not yet needed to sharpen them. I am sure they will be a little more difficult then O1 but I am also sure I will be able to do it.

Keep in mind that O1 and A2 are both considered Tool Steels and not HSS.

The "A" on A2 means that is hardened and then quenched in "A"ir (air)

The "O" on O1 means that is hardened and then quenched in "O"ir (oil)

I also have a Ray Iles Chisel made of D2 --- wanna talk about HARD?

Me Personally - A2

[fredbelknap]

I kinda leaning toward A2 as I'm not a great fan of sharpening. The less time sharpening is better. Leo I was wondering about D2. A for air, O for oil, so D stands for dirt, done, dung, maybe didn't. ;D ;D Just kidding. I think I will order a low angle block plane, partly because I just want it. Thanks

[sawduster]

. . . so D stands for dirt, done, dung, maybe didn't.

Early sword blade makers likely accidentally made steel by encasing the blade blanks in all sorts of different mixtures of mud and "stuff", which often included chicken and other bird feces, before firing the material. This likely transferred carbon from the mixture into the surface of the iron, converting at least the surface to a mild steel.

[Leo Voisine]

There are as many different kinds of steels as there are different kinds of wood. Steel is a cake mix of different materials. Nickel or molybdenum - make it tougher, but machinability goes down. Add Sulfur, or lead, and it gets easier to cut.

D2 - is obnoxiously difficult to cut, but by far not the most difficult steel there is to cut.

O1 - is a lot more difficult to cut than 1018 which is a plain Jane steel.

A2 is more difficult than O1.

416 Stainless it easier than 1018 - and is corrosive.

316 stainless is more difficult than 1018 - and is not corrosive.

There are books written on all this stuff.

[sachbvn]

Leo - why would we buy a book if we can just ask you!

I learned a lot - that's for sure.

Seriously though - what is the "D" for in D2?


Zac

[Leo Voisine]

Not really sure what the "D" means.

[deathwish]

Jun 8, 2010 19:17:55 GMT -6 Leo Voisine said:

Not really sure what the "D" means.

I guess it stands for 'Dunno'

EDIT IN:
Here a chart for you . . . though it doesn't say what the 'D' stands for, it does state what the materials actually is.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_steel

[Knotty_Pine]

My wager is on Desulphurized.

[TDHofstetter]

"Dang".

One thing I can say is... if ya ever need to anneal the steel to reshape it, good frickin' LUCK with any air-hardening steel. Ya can't just heat it & hang it like you can the O1 or the W1 - that HARDENS it. You've got to soak it at temperature, then bring the temperature down VERY VERY SLOWLY. Heck with that, gimme O1 or W1 any day.

[sawduster]

I think Bob Smalser posted a couple times that the longer you can extend the cooling of water or oil steels, the softer you can get it when annealing. He would bury the steel in the hot coals and leave them to cool as the fire went down and out.

[Leo Voisine]

Why would you want to anneal a chisel or a plane blade?

[deathwish]

Jun 15, 2010 13:10:05 GMT -6 Leo Voisine said:

Why would you want to anneal a chisel or a plane blade?

Modifying the blade significantly like shop-making a cranked chisel or skew chisel would be two reasons I can think of. Not that I'd go that route if I wanted one.

Maybe modifying a plane blade to fit something other than a standard plane that it's made for?

And that's without thinking about customizing turning tools like turning a parting tool into a ring former or something else that would require removing lots of metal, drilling holes and regrinding . . . etc.

[sawduster]

Jun 15, 2010 13:10:05 GMT -6 Leo Voisine said:

Why would you want to anneal a chisel or a plane blade?

I often would bid on groups of chisels on ebay that would sometimes have one or more chisels I was looking for, along with several others. Often these group buys would be cheaper than trying to buy the particular ones I was looking for. Of the others in the group, some would be decent and useful, others not. All or the ones I couldn't use, I would toss into a bin in the shop and use the steel for specialty stuff or as blades for shop made wood body planes and such. When you gotta do major alterations to a blade, annealing makes it so much easier.