Pricing help

[JBark]

After a loooooooong layoff from doing anything I get paid for (woodworking) I have the opportunity to make a table for a neighbor of a friend. This guy bought this real big Victorian and has been spending tons on renovating it, doing a lot of work himself. He had some cherry trees cut down and wants to make a distressed farm table from them. My friends recommended me and we've tossed some ideas about.

I'd love the money but a little anxiety jumps in. I've never had a client approach me that didn't know the type/pricerange of the work I do. I don't want to scare this guy off witha high price but at the same time I don't want to hand make a table with mortise and tenon joinery for chump change.

He is talking about boards that are 17-18" wide for the top, probably about seven feet long. When I told him my jointer and planer are only 12" wide he asked if I couldn't do it by hand. In hind sight I think he meant a hand powerplaner (is that what that thing is called?) I think some educating might be in order about what makes a table top flat...or maybe this guy won't care about perfectly flat.

Anyway, I have no idea about pricing such a table. It will probaly be roughly 36-40"x84", a simple tapered leg. I may end up hand planing the top and distressing the piece. My only frame of reference are similar Shaker tables done 20 years ago in the shop I trained in. They were more complicate and went for about $2000-3000...I think.

Does anyone have an idea what the going rate for a table like this is? (I've never priced anything by materials + time/date of birth or some such formula.)

[Leo Voisine]

I would look online and in good furniture stores. Find a couple of similar examples, then think about those prices.

[cabinetman]

Forget the time and material theory, as that never works out. I can count on one hand the jobs I lost because my price was too low. If you sit down with the client and find out exactly what is expected, and make quick sketches (pencil and pad) right in front of him/her, you both will have a better understanding.

You might explain what you intend to do and explain that the end product is not what is found in stores. If there is an understanding of what comprises custom work, your pricing may not seem exorbitant. Don't appear to be desperate. Show pictures of your work, explain your education and experience, and exude confidence.

OTOH, the client may just want a wham bam table and old world craftsmanship is unnecessary. I think once the both of you understand where each is coming from an agreeable figure can be reached.

If you think about what the time in your life is worth, try to estimate how long it will take. We all have perceptions of what our time is worth. And then, there's the value of the craftsmanship to consider. I have learned one thing though. It's easier to come down in price than go up. If you have a talent, make it worthwhile.

[Stretch]

Okay I ran it through the price list we use at work.

3' x 7' top -$1500
Basic apron -$600

We don't have a simple tapered leg base on our price list but I'd charge another $600.

We don't have a hand planed top on the list but I'd probably charge $1200.

Hand rubbed lacquer finish - $2,250
Custom color (including finish sample) add-$1500

Without a custom color:

Retail-$6,150 (what the table would sell for if it sold through a gallery)
Discount-50%
Wholesale price-$3,075 (price we'd give to designers or end consumers who buy directly from us)

Of course if they want a custom finish you add the $1500 before applying the discount.

We do a lot of the "rustic" distress stuff. It makes a project much easier. The look that seems to be big with people now is the "hand hewn" look. What we do is take a #4 bench plane and round off the blade so that it has about 3/32" of arc. Plane the whole top taking off pretty thick shavings. Try to avoid tear out but a little isn't too big of a deal. Do the whole top but don't try to get it flat, you want to leave all the dips and waves from the plane. It you have bad tearout you can clean it up a little with a scraper but you want to use quite a bit of bend in it to keep from flattening the surface too much. After planing we run over the surface with 180 grit on an orbital sander to smooth everything over. Again, you don't want to work too hard at this as you'll flatten all the undulations too much. Then the surface is ready for finish unless they want a bit of distressing too. For distressing, our standard for light to medium distressing is to tap the surface with a broken brick. For heavy distressing, we'll hit it with all sorts of stuff.

[brburns]

When I use boards that are too wide for my planer, I just cut them in half and reglue after jointing, planing. It's not verry noticable at all. I'm not into hand planing though.

Strech, I do like the rounded over plane idea.

[JBark]

After posting that I went online to an outfit that makes the identical table he wants and retails it for $2600.

Mark- I was hoping you'd jump in, I was going to pm you if you didn't. $6000...holy crap! Have things gone up that high sincI did custom work? If I can get half that I'll be tickled pink. (Actually I'll be tickled pink with 1/4 of that but I'd rather have all of it!)

Thanks gents!

[Stretch]

May 25, 2010 14:42:51 GMT -6 JBark said:

After posting that I went online to an outfit that makes the identical table he wants and retails it for $2600.

Mark- I was hoping you'd jump in, I was going to pm you if you didn't. $6000...holy crap! Have things gone up that high sincI did custom work? If I can get half that I'll be tickled pink. (Actually I'll be tickled pink with 1/4 of that but I'd rather have all of it!)

Thanks gents!

Well, half of retail price is the price we usually get since we're dealing with designers who then mark up the work. However, we're kinda on the low/middle end of the spectrum in the world of custom furniture. Dealing with the end consumer though we get a little more. Also, the cost of materials is included in the price. So with the guy providing the wood you'll make a better profit. My advise is to break down the quote the way I did in my earlier post. You can adjust the numbers to what you need them to be. Then explain to him that the retail cost would be what he could expect to pay if he walked into a design gallery and requested a custom piece after the markup from wholesale to retail. Then immediately knock off a percentage to account for this since he is dealing with you, the artisan, directly. Then tell the guy that the wholesale price would be including the price of materials and that since he is providing the cherry you'll knock off the amount you would pay for the cherry at your hardwood supplier. Then quote him the final price. Seeing your price structure will make him feel like he's getting a deal. Also drive home the fact that he's getting a custom piece made from trees from his property. Speaking for the way I do work and the costs of running my shop, I could make money charging $1500 for that table with the guy supplying the lumber. That's the bottom line, anything above that would be a bonus. How far above that I would go in my bid would depend on what the market would bear.

[JBark]

Stretch thanks again. All good advice.

[Stretch]

May 29, 2010 14:21:26 GMT -6 JBark said:

Stretch thanks again. All good advice.

Glad I could help.