The Fumes.

[Knotty_Pine]

I spent a little while in the shop today working through some old bowl blanks I've had drying. Mostly elm, and a few other species.

I decided to break the mold and go with a drastically different shape with one of them. The blank decided to have a bad knot in it and I didn't end up getting the vessel out of it. I stopped trying to finish it when I realized the soft spot in the knot was going to prevent me from progressing further. Plus, I was more than a little concerned about the sharpish edges around that soft knot coming through my 320 paper and skewering a finger. Eagles may soar, but chickens don't get sucked through jet engines.



Then, an idea struck me in the forehead; I have a paper towel I got a little lacquer on, and I've been meaning to throw it away, but I notice it's good for dabbing up small drips of spillage. It's quite stiff. Why not use the lacquer like CA to help stiffen the wood in and around the knot?

I got out a brush and started dabbing the lacquer into the knot area with the lathe off. The lacquer is cheap on MinWax brush on, but I like the finish it gives. Then I discovered something; the fumes! I'd only used the lacquer like french polish, a method I came up with where I make a fad, dip it in the lacquer and then apply to the bowl with the lathe on low speed (If thou dost go faster, thou shalt be lacquered from head to thy feet!). I've only used tiny amounts of the stuff, less than an ounce at any given time. Now, I was openly applying it into the knot, waiting for it to soak in a little, and applying more.

Welp, the fumes beat me out. Had I stuck with it, I could likely have gotten the knot stiffened to the point where it'd let me finish the bowl, but my eyes were watering, I got dizzy, and I had to get some air.

Fellas, take it easy with fumes. I have only a little fan for stirring the air, and an open window for ventilation. If you've got a suction system to suck dust and fumes out of your face, it's in your best interest to use it. I'm going to install a small box fan blowing right into my face for finishing. Especially for times when I don't want to dismount the bowl and hassle to remount it true. If you can, take it outside if the stuff you're using will roll your eyes back in your head!

BTW, as you can see, I missed the shape by miles. I had it at one point, but then I lost the shape again and never could get back to it. I was looking more into the shape of an elegant basin, I ended up with the shape of a top hat crossed with a chamber pot.

TJ.

[Doug B]

Lacquer is one of those smells that bothers me. Reminds me of insecticide. I prefer to use it outdoors when possible. Poly smell does not bother me, and Shellac I actually kinda like the smell of, but breathing in Lacquer makes me feel like I'm being poisoned.

For your knot, I'd definitely use CA instead of Lacquer because it cures much much, much faster, and will build up much quicker and you can get the thick viscosity that works well for that purpose. And you can get CA Accelerator that will make it cure instantly which is pretty handy too. Just don't get any on your hands

Thin CA can be bought at Harbor Freight in small quantities for small cost, but I have not seen thick CA anywhere locally. And all CA is going to be least expensive if you get it from Monty.

If you really want to fill that knot and you don't care about keeping the "Knotty" look...you can use a 2 part epoxy, over fill it slightly and then turn or sand it back down to the same dimension as the bowl.

[Knotty_Pine]

I've been wanting to give Monty some business. Which CA viscosity will I use the most of? I'm not pen turning,mostly I'll be using it for the above instance when I need to stiffen fibers so I can salvage the vessel. Maybe for small spindle (.50-.75) finishes.

I've read of fire hazards involving CA and cotton, so I've been a little leery of the stuff, but if I'm going to be dealing with junky found blanks, it's due time. I've got paper towels that don't leave too much fuzz behind, so those will likely be the applicator if I'm doing small spindles.

TJ.

[Knotty_Pine]

You will all probably laugh at me, but I started noticing the deals Monty was offering, and I ended up ordering one of pretty much everything he sells in glue. Thin, med, thick, accelerator, mild accelerator, debonder. I'm a sucker for a deal, and I figure for that price, if it lasts me a hundred years I still got a great deal.

I emailed Monty for some tips, I'll ask for the same here. I know that ya should keep debonder on hand for unsticking fingers, and that cotton and CA mix rather excitingly. Beyond that, I haven't a clue.

With the above bowl, would I just rotate the lathe so that the void is at the bottom (so I could get at it easier without the CA dripping back out) then just squirt the thick CA into the void and put on a drop of accelerator?

Any advice would be appreciated much.

Thanks,
TJ.

[Doug B]

I was going to recommend exactly that kind of thing TJ. You will use all 3 viscosities at some time. Thin for small hairline cracks and for punky wood that needs stabilized because the thin soaks in the deepest. Thick for filling voids and medium for pen finishes

For your knot, I would probably hit it with a good dose of thin CA to stabilize it, and then some thick to fill in at least some of the voids.

Be careful of what is beneath what you are using thin CA on - it can and will go completely through and glue your turning down to whatever it is sitting on. Butter dish lids work well to protect your bench for small stuff.

Accelerator is a hard thing to quantify...I use it for all kinds of different reasons. For your bowl knot I would spray some accelerator after using the thick CA just so that I could move the bowl around and the CA would not run or drip. Be warned though - accelerator does not always make the CA cure through and through. I use it a lot on my Pine Cone turnings to fill voids and once you turn through the top layer of CA it can really come flying out of the void when you are spinning it on the lathe.

Congrats! You are going to find all kinds of uses for CA glue in the shop. And paper towels are definitely the way to apply it or smooth it out. Just remember that thin CA will most definitely soak right through a folded up paper towel and glue it to your finger on the bottom side DAMHIKT

[sdb777]

I use the thin to 'fix' things. Cracks and knots that are the two big things. But I have also used it to make those 'punky areas' harder. I mostly use the medium for making the finish coats and to 'fill' holes. As a pen turner(still haven't done any bowls) I use the medium for glueing in the tubes...don't seem to get the 'early stick where the tube isn't all the way into the blank with it.


As far as your bowl....I think it looks pretty good the way it is!



Scott (thicker is better around here) B

[dicklaxt]

I believe you got your fan blowing when it should be sucking.

dick

[sawduster]

Monty's regular prices on stuff makes me wonder what sort of mark up the other guys are adding on. I couldn't believe how cheaply he was selling the stuff.

[Ruffnek]

TJ, you did good getting all three viscosities. While I don't use debonder any more, I do use a lot of accelerator. Matter of fact, I need to place another order now.

Using CA glue, what I would do is soak the knot in accellerator first then apply some thin CA and let it set. Next soak the knot in accellerator again, apply some thick and when it has leveled itself, hit it with some more accelerator and let it sit long enough for the entire mess to harden...maybe an hour.

I'm not trying to discourage use of Monty's CA glue but for bigger voids epoxy works better than CA...it just takes longer to cure, even the 5 minute epoxy. You can mix epoxy with sawdust, too, to amend the color and thicken it.

[monty]

Cody,
I wouldn't soak the knot with accelerator prior to applying the thin CA........that would cause the thin CA to start to harden before it has a chance to wick into all the crevices.

And I also agree that if you have a large void to fill, you'd be better off using epoxy......which I sell also. ;D ;D ;D

[Knotty_Pine]

May 27, 2010 14:54:02 GMT -6 Ruffnek said:

You can mix epoxy with sawdust, too, to amend the color and thicken it.

I thought about that on a bowl I turned not long ago, it had a punky spot on it that, after turning kinda sank (dried out and the punky dried more I thin). The idea of mixing CA and dust would not only make an interesting 'patch' but it'd also give some character.

With the CA, I'm not going to be able to do that I don't think. By the stuff sitting in seconds, I wouldn't have much mix time for the dust. I'll look into some epoxy. Monty sells some, might get some of that.

[turntex]

One warning...don't use CA to fill voids in bowls unless you use a face shield when turning said filled area! I got to spend 4 hours in the emergency room at a cost of $1,000 out of pocket due to getting CA in my eye while doing just such a thing! It hardened on the surface and when I turned it, liquid flew out. I WAS using a face shield too, I just did not have it down all the way! It hurt like hell too!

[monty]

May 27, 2010 15:15:24 GMT -6 Knotty_Pine said:

With the CA, I'm not going to be able to do that I don't think. By the stuff sitting in seconds, I wouldn't have much mix time for the dust. I'll look into some epoxy. Monty sells some, might get some of that.

If you use the thick CA, you have about 45-60 seconds before it starts to harden, unless there is moisture present in the dust, then it will accelerate the hardening.

[Ruffnek]

May 27, 2010 15:13:52 GMT -6 monty said:

Cody,
I wouldn't soak the knot with accelerator prior to applying the thin CA........that would cause the thin CA to start to harden before it has a chance to wick into all the crevices.

You are probably right, Mannie.

At least put some masking tape over the area on the outside so that all the thin CA doesn't run right through. You can turn or sand away any tape that doesn't peel off later.

FWIW - I used some West System epoxy to fill a fairly long inclusion in the armrest (top side) of a Cedar Adirondack chair I made. I wanted to thicken the epoxy and chose to use some Suede-Tex flocking for thickening...maroon-colored flocking.

Well, it worked better than anything I've ever used. It came out black instead of maroon but it filled the void perfectly and a year later still looks as good as the day i finished the chair. That flocking is actually little strips of poly, I think. It woked great.

[monty]

Good tip on the masking tape. I'd hate for the bowl to get glued to the workbench.