"I need to see the blade" - Hooey!

[Beamer]

So I was sitting in the chat room tonight and thought I'd pose the following thoughts:

Some guys claim the HAVE to see the blade on their table saw as it's cutting. They sound like it's imperative to the cut.

I think that's a crock of bull, myself. If your fence is where it belongs, what possible gain is there to be had at seeing the blade do its job? The light reflected off that particular point in space really isn't going to have any impact on the cut if it goes unobserved, is it?

"Oh i've been doing this for years and i have to see that blade..." Why?

So far, nobody has given me any reason that isn't already there with your eyes focused elsewhere. I say watch your HANDS, not the blade. Once the saw meets the wood, watching it ain't gonna change the outcome...

So ... what's everyone think? Do you absolutely HAVE to see that blade?

I say marveling at carbide slicing wood at high speed lost it's novelty for me a long long time ago ... so I'll stick with making sure the board's against the fence where it belongs and that it isn't lifting up off the table or that my hands aren't on a collision course or that the push shoe is ready if/when i need it. I don't give two spits about what the blade's doing so long as it's not spewing carbide bits at me...

[dcarter636]

Scroll saw, jigsaw, band saw, hand saw, circular saw I want to see the blade as it works; I don't trust them to follow a line on their own honor. The table saw; I can't see much value in seeing the blade except to know where it is so that my hand isn't there at the same time.

BTW I have no idea where my table saw blade guard is and haven't used it since the first week after I bought the saw 20+ years ago. That OEM guard was, and still is, a serious safety hazard.

[rrich]

I've been taught...

The Shaka zone. No fingers on the stock or table inside the zone.

Left hand, middle knuckles on the table, pressure to the right holding the stock against the fence, thumb holding the stock against the fence.

Right hand in a spider shape with thumb about behind the middle and ring finger. The fingers press stock against the table and the thumb feeds the stock through the cut, ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CUT!

If the right hand feeding procedure violates the Shaka rule, use a push stick.

The Shaka sign is:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_sign
and translates to about 6-7 inches. If the thumb or pinkie can touch the blade while touching the other hand, you're too close.

Assuming that the saw operator has visualized the cut before actually making it, the ONLY IMPORTANT PLACE TO WATCH IS THE FENCE. If the stock wanders away from the fence, you need to stop the saw immediately. If you don't a kick back is about to be part of your future.

I know what you are thinking.

Don't go there! The answer is the same reason that you don't trust the safety on a firearm.

If you are still about to... I don't want to be near you simultaneously with firearms and you're not welcome in my shop.

[gomer]

Good points, Jason. However, I used to be one of the guys your speaking of. My fence always moved just a tad @ the rear when I clamped it down. I thought this was a defect in the fence. In "Canoecraft" however, they pointed out that that is actually by design, so that there is clearance to avoid kickback. Makes perfect sense ....now. I always struggled to get it straight. Now I know it's not supposed to be. So, if I can ever find my guard I'll put it back on.

[Stretch]

What Rich said. Exactly. The only thing I'll add is that IF you are using a table saw with no splitter, you need to be aware of the kirf behind the blade. If it begins to close, you need to shut down the saw because that can cause a kick back.

[Doug B]

The temptation is always there to watch the blade...after all, that is what you have to keep your fingers away from...but, I was taught to watch the fence and make sure the stock stay tight up against the fence. It is an unnatural thing to not watch the blade, but it is the right thing to do. Just make sure your fingers are not in the way of the blade.

I use a Micro Jig splitter and a push stick - in fact I have several push sticks that I use depending on the situation. I also use a feather board whenever possible, but I do not and will not use that damn guard and splitter that came with my Table Saw. Like Dave, I know that it is more of a hazard than than a safety feature. There is just something about not being able to see the blade because of the guard that just does not work for me. Even though I am doing my best to watch the fence, I know I also keep an eye on the blade.

The sound made during the cut is also a good indicator of how the cut is going. I don't really know how to explain the sound part, I think it is something you just have to experience.

This is the Micro Jig splitter I use www.microjig.com/products/mj-splitter/

I have the Gripper too, but I have never used it. Something just does not seem right to me with it. But, the splitter is great!

[Ruffnek]

On TS rip cuts, I stand left of the blade and watch to ensure the stock is tight against the fence. As I finish the cut, I move slightly to the right and push the stock past the blade in one smooth motion. I don't think I ever look directly at the blade but rather, am aware of where it is (and my left hand) from my peripheral vision.

On cross cuts using the miter gauge, yes, I look at the blade but that's a different situation.

Sub-consciously I guess, I've adopted Rich's shaka rule. I keep a push stick on the table and use it on everything except really wide boards. I just feel more comfortable that way and it's become a habit. Before I start any rip I find myself locating the push stick first.

I use a Micro-jig splitter but I removed the blade guard on my saw after the first test run. Even though the saw easily passed the nickle test, that guard rattled and was too difficult to put on and take off to suit me.

Shop safety is a personal thing. What seems perfectly safe to one might cause another to go into cardiac arrest just at the thought. Hardly any two persons will have the exact same view on every situation.

Like Sonny used to say, "my shop, my methods." Just don't go whining to a lawyer if your methods get you hurt.

[lexrex]

With a rip I stand to the opposite side of the piece that will be trapped between blade and fence. If there is an ejection, I ain't gonna take it in the gut. I believe Tim fundamentally disagrees with me here. I also focus on the piece/fence contact on the area of fence in front of the blade. I don't find the urge to actually stare at the blade because I'm thinking of too many other things at the same time and mostly worried about fence contact.

[TDHofstetter]

Today... I'm gonna' go set up a rip on my rip saw (I've got a lot of 'em to do today) and mindfully observe exactly WHY I always like to have the guard off that saw but like to have the guard ON the crosscutting saw. Maybe I object to the fact that the guard obstructs a lot of my view of the contact between the workpiece and the fence anywhere past the leading edge of the blade, I'm not quite sure. I'm pretty positive I don't look at the juncture of blade and workpiece, that being really a pretty uninteresting sight while I'm feeding wood through the saw. I can FEEL kerf closure (workpiece starts to develop "loft"), so it ain't that.

[Ruffnek]

May 6, 2010 7:57:37 GMT -6 TDHofstetter said:

I can FEEL kerf closure (workpiece starts to develop "loft"), so it ain't that.

Me, too. In fact, I've never come close to having a kickback because of kerf closure. I think that particular event is way overrated. I guess the fact that I almost 100% use a splitter now on rip cuts helps, too.

Of the two kickbacks I've had, both with the old Craftsman saw, they were caused by the stock rotating into the blade. On the first one, I got careless and let the stock move away from the fence into the back of the blade. I was not using a splitter, either. (yeah, I know)

On the second, I was using the miter gauge in the left miter track. I made the cut and then attempted to push the offcut out of the way with a push stick. Instead, I nudged it into the blade and a nano-second later, it hit me in the right side of my belly. I still have two faint scars, 3/4" apart where the edges of that offcut dug into me. That one hurt.

[TDHofstetter]

P-TWHANGGGGG!

[rrich]

I've used the Micro Jig splitter. It is a VERY GOOD splitter, easy to remove and re-install. My current splitter (UniSaw) has anti kick back pawls. Just as easy to remove... The drawback is cost, $140 a few years ago and a PITA to install initially. I believe that it also works like a riving knife on bevel cuts but I've never tried it. Of the few bevel cuts I've done most were non through cuts.

If you want a $2 splitter, you could try this.

Make a ZC insert throat plate for your saw out of Baltic Birch or phenolic. Make the blade cut through the ZC insert.

Now on the drill press. Take a drill bit the exact size of the kerf in the ZC insert and use it to position your drill press fence. The drill should be able to pass through the kerf at any point AND the ZC insert is flush against the fence.

Now put a drill bit 1/32" smaller than the bit you used to align the ZC in the drill press. About an inch from the end of the kerf, drill a hole completely through the ZC.

Use a drill bit 1/64" larger than the hole that you just drilled. Grind through the drill bit so that only the shank remains. Grind a blunt point on the end of the drill bit.

Now put a bunch of CA glue in the hole in the ZC. Use a hammer and drive the drill bit shank into the ZC insert. Let the drill bit stick up about an inch out of the ZC insert. You now have a splitter in the ZC.

The splitter s/b 1/64" less in diameter than the width of the kerf. The splitter is aligned perfectly with the saw kerf. The two down sides to this splitter are, that it can't be used with bevel cuts and for non through cuts the ZC must be changed.

[art3427]

As a rule I use the "mark and cut" method more than reading a rule and setting the fence to a number. I use this for both ripping and crosscutting. So, I really do need to see where the blade is when I'm starting the cut. But once the material is committed to the blade its all eyes on the fence - whether its the rip fence or the one on my miter gauge.

I always tell newbies that the blade in the middle of the table will not move from that location. It is also very zealous to defend its turf. Sooo, if you don't put your fingers where the blade is, it cannot cut you.

art