Laminate / Engineered flooring

[sachbvn]

Hi Guys,

My brother wants me to install a floor for him. This will be my first attempt at a project. He is looking at laminate (of some sort) but I had some questions.

One - obviously not all brands are the same - are there any that you recommend?

Two - this is going to be in a kitchen, dinning room, 1/2 bathroom. I thought I read somewhere that there is something called engineered flooring that is made like plywood, but pretty like laminate flooring - big advantage is that it is less susceptible to water damage - yet installs easily like laminate flooring.


What blade would you recommend for a MS?


Any other tips / hints for installing it? We plan to pull the trim off (newer home so it shouldn't be an issue) and work around the island as opposed to removing it.


Thanks!
Zac

[bch47]

I used Pergo laminate in our kitchen. Applied right over subfloor. Nice thing is backing is attached to flooring, saving one step. Used engineered wood in entrance to home. It is a hardwood layer attached to plywood backing. Looks more like hardwood flooring than the laminate. As to water damage, the engineered is still a wood product. Installation was easy.

[bch47]

I had to look at my saw. Used an 80 tooth blade for both types of flooring. The laminate is a floating floor, no nails or glue. Used engineered wood floor glue on the other flooring. Biggest thing on both floors was to remember which end to cut. I ruined a few pieces by being in a hurry.

[TDHofstetter]

I don't like it, having seen a lot of it delaminate. Not to say that it'll ALL delaminate in a short time, but I've seen a bunch of it happen.

If you put it in... remember first & foremost to leave plenty of gap around ALL the edges so it can move. If you don't, it'll buckle. It may have no distinct grain direction, but it'll still expand & contract with humidity changes.

[sawduster]

We've got "engineered hard wood" flooring installed in our house. It is like plywood that has been ripped and cross cut with T & G around the perimeter of each piece. The stuff we've got has a nearly 1/8" thick hardwood veneer as the view ply, so if it does need refinishing at some point it can be sanded without burning through. I would not recommend this stuff for wet areas unless you plan to seal it after installation because any water that sits near a seam will seep into the wood and cause issues.

For wet ares, something like Pergo or other plastic laminate would be best.

[Safetyboy]

We used a lot of laminate flooring in our house - it was cheaper to put it in than carpet! (if you do the work yourself, which isn't hard). I'd say any of the brands the Home Centers carry are pretty decent. We used Shaw and Pergo, and they seem about the same. Having lived with it for a few years now, I would say:

Best application is in low-use areas, like the bedrooms, in my opinion. The stuff can chip if you drop something hard on it (like kitchen utensils or plates), and the chips are next to impossible to repair. I'd also hesitate to use it in a bathroom - if you don't seal all the edges & water gets under there, the MDF base will swell like crazy (course, that's assuminmg your kids take baths like mine do - tidal wave!).

I think laminate is a good choice if you want a relatively inexpensive way to spruce up a room that will look good for 5-8 years or so - if I was building or remodeling my "long term" home though, I'd definitely choose something a bit more durable.

This is the Pergo in our living room (underneath the table) - feel free to ask for any more tips:

[sachbvn]

The bathroom is sink and stool only - no shower/tub. I'm not sure how long this is to be put into place, though at this point it's not super likely to have massive amounts of water on it.

I guess my question is this.... is there a difference in engineered flooring vs. laminate in terms of water getting on it? Period - that's the question.

Second question - is engineered any more difficult to put in?


Thanks for the replies guys!!

Zac

[rrich]

I would not use the laminated stuff. It is WAY TOO SOFT. Furniture leaves indentations. The dumbest thing we ever did was to use the laminated stuff. (We have the stuff with the 7 coatings in the finish, etc.)

My suggestion is to go with a a solid hard wood. In the long run you'll be a lot happier.

[TDHofstetter]

As an alternative... they DO make a resilient vinyl flooring that looks very, very much like hardwood and lasts a long time. Ya, I know - vinyl. It does the job, though, if you're not up for the cost of real full-thickness hardwood.

[sachbvn]

Rich,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxktWGRkO7w&feature=channel

I'm not arguing - I'm just posting this..... is the guy full of total BS or do you have something else in mind in regards to durability?

I'm sure this stuff is forever changing and getting better.

Two other things - one, this isn't my house - I'm just doing it for my brother.

Two - and three I guess - I'm not sure we are up to installing actual hardwood, and finally - I think the cost is a factor - he's just not wanting to spend as much as would be necessary for hardwood.


Thanks,
Zac

[TDHofstetter]

Here's perhaps an important question - how much underdoor clearance is already there? To go with that one... is this floor to go on top of an existing floor, or will it REPLACE an existing floor? If it's to go on top, is there enough clearance under the existing doors & jambs (laminate MUST go UNDER the jambs)?

[sachbvn]

Tim - there is only where doorway it will cross - the other ones it will but up next to. It will go over the existing floor..... the only doorway it will go past is the 1/2 bath which has a pocket door - I'm nervous about the pocket door because I can't just pull that sucker off the hinges and cut the bottom off easily.

I don't know what this is a for sure thing - I'm not sure of the clearances, he just told me he wanted to do it - I've not been over to his house to do any measuring.


Zac

[brburns]

May 2, 2010 17:41:23 GMT -6 rrich said:

I would not use the laminated stuff. It is WAY TOO SOFT. Furniture leaves indentations. The dumbest thing we ever did was to use the laminated stuff. (We have the stuff with the 7 coatings in the finish, etc.)

My suggestion is to go with a a solid hard wood. In the long run you'll be a lot happier.

Yep, I did engineered flooring and the problem is that it is soft like pine. It's oak on top, but the majority of the thickness is pine.

[rrich]

Zac,
The brand that we used was Aston or Alton or some such stuff. We got the top of the line stuff. The side board that I built has the plastic footsies (From HD) on the bottom of the legs. When LOML slid the side board it left indentations in the floor. The floor looks great until you start living with the floor.

Usually, oak is about the cheapest flooring that you can get from somebody like Lumber Liquidators. (Unfinished) Minwax has some water based polyurethane for floors that is ready to be walked on in about 8 hours and abused in 24 hours. If you can, the pre distressed stuff is fantastic. My son has it in his new home. Not only does it look great but where the hammer or screwdriver was dropped, doesn't really show.

I KNOW that if we ever do it again, it will be solid oak, pre distressed and finished with water based polyurethane.

[sachbvn]

I'm shocked Rich, about how easily it showed wear.

You'd think that would be covered by there warantee - maybe not.

Makes me wonder if laminate would hold up better than the thin top ply of engineered flooring.

Zac

[rrich]

The product, like any flooring product, is warranted to be a floor, free from manufacturing defects. When furniture is slid across the floor, the floor is being a friction reducing surface and not a floor.

That's just how it is.

[sachbvn]

As described by the guy I talked to at the store "don't buy anything, or even pick anything, because of it's warantee..... at all" if it isn't defective when you are laying it down - they won't cover it.


I guess that about sums it up!

Zac

[gomer]

May 2, 2010 19:00:44 GMT -6 sachbvn said:

Rich,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxktWGRkO7w&feature=channel

I'm not arguing - I'm just posting this..... is the guy full of total BS or do you have something else in mind in regards to durability?

I'm sure this stuff is forever changing and getting better.

Two other things - one, this isn't my house - I'm just doing it for my brother.

Two - and three I guess - I'm not sure we are up to installing actual hardwood, and finally - I think the cost is a factor - he's just not wanting to spend as much as would be necessary for hardwood.


Thanks,
Zac

Lumber Liquidators is your best bet. Real hardwood, T&G, and if you browse their discontinued section, cheap. I got mine for 99 cents sq. ft. Biggest selling point of my old house. Dude wanted me to do a bunch of upgrades. I refused. He kept looking at the floors. I'm convinced that is what sold him.