Backsaw Handle?

[admin]

Hiya,

I have a Gents saw, Footprint of Sheffield, England that's pretty close, the writing's worn off the sides because some dolt (me) has been using it.... As all gents saw to my knowledge, the handle is turned, and is round.

And, dare I admit it, it pretty damn hard to hang onto for extended periods of time. I can use it for a half hour or so and then I notice my hand starts to cramp up from gripping that little turned handle.

I've plodded a bit making pushsticks for the table saw, and I feel reasonably confident that I could create a handle of the same style to put onto the gents saw. There in lies the rub.

It seems to me to be highly unlikely that I'm the first to consider this. How does the saw fit onto or into the handle? By the looks of it, it's much like the connection between a file and it's handle. A ferrule makes the connection firm. It would seem it is as simple as making the new handle to my own specs, then fitting it onto the saw 'tang' with a sturdy ferrule to hold it firmly.

Is this possible? What problems might I encounter? Misguided? Misinformed?

I don't want to ruin the only decent backsaw I have, but the possibility of making it more user-friendly is attractive to say the least.

TJ.

[TDHofstetter]

That's just about like this one?



Yep, that'd be a simple fit on an ordinary tang - not sure if it's a straight tang or a tapered one, though.

You can definitely make your own handle for it, fitted either with the original ferrule or your own ferrule made from half of a 1/2" or 3/4" copper pipe coupling; the couplings are harder than the pipe.

Better to make one from wood that's a little green - as it dries it'll shrink down onto the tang a little.

The one potential hazard I see is driving it onto the tang. The brass back MUST MUST MUST be supported in a heavy vise VERY CLOSE to the tang, VERY CLOSE to where the ferrule will stop when the handle's driven on. Deviate from that & you may bend that all-important back.

The original handle can be split off the tang with a chisel, all the way down to the ferrule. It's probably best to do that with the saw mounted in the vise, with the ferrule nestled right against the vise jaws, then not disturb the vise or saw until the new handle's made & driven on.

[mapleman]

yeah - that is one of the big reasons i do not like gents style saws... i like a more positive grip - b/c it helps me keep the cvut straighter... preference thing i guess.

only thing i would add is that when you send the tang home --- i would do it gently and i would rap the handle on a hgard surface to pull the saw down - rather than force the saw in any way... just my thoughts...

john

[TDHofstetter]

Good point about driving the tang into the handle instead of the other way around. It's practical with this style saw - blade directly in line with the handle. I've got one with the handle canted up from the blade's line (really kinda' a beggar to use) - on that one it wouldn't work so well (much like the saw).

[Joe Lyddon]

How much of the saw would you bury into the handle?

Would you just have Clamping screws to hold it on?

How?

Sounds like a good idea...

[tw]

I would drill the hole in the handle loose enough to avoid all risk and then use epoxy to hold the handle in place on the tang.....but this is just my unqualified oppinion.

Two points which I had hard to realize when I made my first backsaw handles:
-Remember that the horns of the handle are important and should be at the correct distance from each other. Otherwise you will not get a steady enough grip.
-Remember the three finger grip. Three fingers grip the tote while the index finger and the thumb point straight forward steering the saw one on each side of the handle.

[sawduster]

I would also plan on the handle housing at least a half inch of the back and the blade. Cut and chisel this out for a nice snug fit. If you can afford to give up a bit more of the blade, I'd like to see even more housed into the handle. Here is a pic of what I'm talking about from a Wenzloff saw kit I did some time back.



And here is a pic of the blade fitted into the rough handle.



By housing some of the blade you rely less on the tang to keep the saw and handle lined up properly.

You might also look at some similar type vintage saws and get an idea of the proper angle of the tote (is what the handle of a saw as well as a hand plane is called) to the blade. Almost a science involved in getting that just right for optimum performance.

The somewhat loose fit of the tang into the tote and fitted in epoxy like TW said is a good idea.

[Joe Lyddon]

Thank you!

Very good pictures!

[admin]

After having looked at some pictures of totes (thanks for the term Jer!) I noticed that all of them had the brass back buried in the handle. With my little gents saw, identical to the one posted above, if I bury an inch of brass in the handle, I'm not going to have much blade showing.

With the gents saw, I got to thinking about where stuff would be inside the handle, and it got me thinking. If i'm sawing and for some odd reason I hit something unexpected (nail, super hard knot, bullet, etc) while I'm on the forward stroke, the handle *could* break, and if the handle breaks, I could have what looks like a file tang sticking there in line with my KNUCKLES that are moving FORWARD. I once punched a bully who wore braces... I'll pass.

I've got another couple backsaws, one of which has a boxy clunky handle that is about as user friendly as holding a square block. so, I'm thinking on just replacing the handle on it and then sharpen it as best I can. It's got steel in it that is as hard as a half rotten tater, but I can knock a new edge in there and when I have to do a lot of sawing, I can go for the big backsaw (it's around 14" or so, Kobalt...) When all I need to do is whiz through a little piece I can go with the gents.

With the bigger backsaw, I can bury more of the back brass without losing much in the way of useable length.

Thanks for the pics Jer, they help me understand! I'm just glad I got my mind working before ruining the saw, lol.

[sawduster]

If the tote on the one with the clunky tote is wood, rather than replacing it, you might consider going at it with a rasp, taking off the corners of the area you grip, and rounding them over. There's sorta some instructions on doing this on this page of my website.

Would beat the heck outa doin one from scratch.

[admin]

I thought of just softening it, but it's plastic and I don't have a rasp I'd give to the job, lol.

I'm still tinkering with the idea... I'll think of something. Even wooden junk will feel better than this plastic that slides all around in my hand.

[tw]

A picture of a plastic handled backsaw that I modified some time ago.
img405.imageshack.us/img405/6071/tappsg.jpg

The risk of the handle splitting and the exposed tang hurting your knuckles is minuscule. You do not use enough force on a tiny gent's saw to more than barely scratch the skin. Round the corners of the tang with a file before you glue it in.

[tw]

I went out to the shop and took some pictures in order to describe the ergonomics of a back saw handle and how it is gripped.




Note that the "hang angle" that is the angle between the back and the tote is more obture for lighter saws than for heavier saws.
Myself I have a bad habit of pressing down too thard on the saw. I counteract that by making the hang angle a bit less obtuse than normal. It works best for me that way.

I am no expert in sawmaking so do not take my advice as absolute truths.

[Joe Lyddon]

Very GOOD!

Thank you!

[admin]

Thanks for the photos TW!