New kitchen cabinets

[Mark T]

OK, troops. The war department has determined that kitchen cabinets are too expensive from a retailer, and she can't get a few of the bells and whistles she wants anyway, so I have been commissioned, with no pay, to produce a kitchen full of new cabinetry. As such, I will have a question or two as we unfold this project.

First question: The cabinets will be white painted. Store bought units are maple under the finish (face frames, door frames). Any reason to use such an expensive wood? I would think something like poplar would be plenty good. It is stable and hard too. It'll all be covered with an opaque finish.

Any reasons why not to use poplar or equivalent?

Carcases will be 1/2" hardwood ply with shelf adjustment holes. Shelves will be either 1/2" or 3/4" ply depending on loads and spans. Drawers will be 1/2" poplar boxes with ply bottoms (probably also 1/2").

Other inquiries to follow, like European hinge techniques, finishing materials (I will be spraying), and good material to use for flat panel doors.

Stay tuned...

[sawduster]

Poplar is one of the softer hardwoods and I would be inclined to go with something nearly as inexpensive, but harder. Depending on price, I would consider one of the oaks or maybe pecan/hickory. But that is just me.

The Euro hinges are very forgiving of slight inaccuracies in placement since they are quite adjustable. For flat panels in the doors, I would use hardwood ply of some sort due to stability over solid wood, and weight when compared to say MDF.

I'd also go with 3/4" hardwood ply for the carcases. With facing pieces of hardwood, the 1/2" shelves would probably suffice, but I really rather go with 3/4" ply for those as well. But I tend to over build. ;D

[imahic]

At my previous house, we built our cabinets from red alder and birch plywood. The alder was a lot cheaper but looked pretty good stained. Painting it would make it a non issue. You could probably get away with regular plywood since you are painting it anyway. I would be cautious about using mdf or particle board on the carcases anywhere close to the sink though. Mark/Stretch could probably give you some good pointers since he is in the cabinet building business now.

Mike

[TDHofstetter]

Yellow or tulip poplar isn't at all a bad choice for cabinetry. It's often used as a secondary wood for carcase internals, and it's hard enough to stand up to really some pretty heavy abuse. Certain other cousins aren't nearly as hard - aspen and cottonwood spring to mind.

Poplar, in general, takes paint very well.

1/2" ply may be fine for some of the cab sides; it's better to go with 3/4" for any that're likely to carry really heavy loads, and for any that're exposed to the outside world. 1/2" should be fine for interior panels. 1/4" or 3/8" for backs.

For drawer sides... 1/2" is really pushing the foil. You'll be installing drawer bottoms, probably into 1/4"x1/4" slots milled into the sides, and if the sides are only 1/2" thick, that leaves only 1/4" to support the drawer bottom. If somebody piles heavy stuff in a drawer, or if a little kid climbs the drawers like a ladder to get to the cookie jar... that bottom could break out & turn into a huge mess.

EDIT: Be aware that there are several grades of Euro hinges; some are stamped sheet metal & others are cast. The "good" hinges lead you into a worldful of complications just choosing the right assemblage of hinge parts for any one door. There are all sorts of parts to buy & put together to make one hinge.

The lower grade of Euro hinge is much simpler; they offer a few general-purpose hinges that're usually shipped complete & ready to go. They're not built as nicely, but they do the job.

[Mark T]

I LOVE getting answers FAST. You guys rock.

The reason for asking for poplar is simple in this area- it is very cheap here. If it'll work without undue issues, I can pare down the face frames/door frames cost significantly. If it won't work, we move on.

There will be NO MDF in any of my work. I don't like it for this application.

The reason I suggested 1/2 hardwood ply for carcases is that the current cabinets are of the same dimension. I cannot imagine a load that would overstress 1/2" walls. 3/4" sides is overkill in my estimation for wall cabs ( I may be wrong), but even the most high end store bought units are not that heavy. Some customs might use 3/4" throughout, but well.. I'll mill this one over for a bit more.

I wll use 3/4" on base units that are exposed, and probably the sink base.

I'll go 5/8 for the drawer sides. Way more than what is there now. As far as slides, I'll need a suggestion when it comes time. I would like to get as close to full extension as possible, but will not use side mount slides. They eat up 1" of side clearance (1/2" on each side). There must be something out there for this. I have a Woodworker's Supply catalog, a Rockler cat, and a woodcraft catalog. None of them offer exactly what I want. I'll get to that issue during design phase.

I guess I should add that these cabinets, while wanting them to look professional and provide good service, are NOT my dream cabinets. This project is partially looking at resale value (the current units are working on 30 years old, and weren't great even new) . We are currently caretakers for my wife's parents. As soon as we are no longer caring for them, we're outta there. Anything would be an improvement.

Thanks again guys. I'll mull it over for the weekend, and we'll start again next week.

[Joe Lyddon]

I like poplar...

I think it would work very well... IMHO...

[Stretch]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Poplar for paint grade projects. It has a nice closed grain that looks good under paint and it's cheap. For the flat panels, I'd suggest paint grade birch. Again, it has a closed grain. Luan would be cheaper, but it has an open grain that you have to fill and sand to get a nice smooth painted surface. Also, you should be fine with 1/2" ply sides as it seems to be pretty standard from what I see. I've even seen cabinets with 1/4" sides, but I would not go there myself. For drawer slides, the big thing now is self or soft closing undermount slides. That's what I'm going to use on the kitchen I'm doing for my mom. They require 1/2" or 5/8" sides. The strength issue that Tim mentioned with thin sides is not an issue with undermounts as the slide is on the bottom of the drawer and all the weight is on the slide, not the drawer slide. There are tons of options for European hinges. Most require a cup to be drilled with a Forstner bit. I bought a jig from Rockler for this to speed things up. They're the only ones who carry it.

Hinge drilling jig:
www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5878&filter=hinge%20jig

Good source of supply for hardware:
wwhardware.com/

For painting them I strongly suggest going with an airless sprayer. Besides paint, you can swap out the tip and shoot lacquer or other wood finishes. I do the vast majority of my wood finishing with an airless. If buying one is out of the question (I paid $300 for mine) you can usually rent them.

[Mark T]

Good information Stretch. Will look for the undermount slides. Most of the ones I have seen are 3/4 opening. They'll work, but I really like full extension. Probably not real easy with undermount.

I'll be using HVLP gun with air. I am a car painter for giggles, so I have mondo painting equipment. I will need to know the prefered type of paint for this application though. My cars don't come and go quite like wood does, except maybe with a deer strike. ;D

Ah, more good advice. That's why I keep you guys and gals.

[larryh86gt]

And when you hang them don't forget to remove the cabinet doors first. It's a lot easier to hold them in place without the weight of the door hanging out there. But you probably know this.
Larry

[TDHofstetter]

That also helps keep you from trying to hold 'em up by the doors - ROUGH practice, but automatic.