lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Jan 27, 2010 9:06:58 GMT -6
Question: I have an HVAC run that is right where I want to put my wall. Some of it will be enclosed in a soffit but there is one piece, maybe 3' where it would be in the way of my top plate should I try to keep the wall straight.
Can I attach the top plate to the bottom of a sturdy 2x4 soffit? I think I can attach some cripples/soffit sides direct to the existing studs. Any other way to avoid moving the wall? The HVAC run intersects the joists so there is no way to recess it any more than it is.
I can take pictures later tonight.
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Post by TDHofstetter on Jan 27, 2010 9:44:15 GMT -6
Shouldn't be any trouble at all breaking up the top plate to fit around the plenum. Remember, you're not building a structural (load bearing) WALL here, you're building a lightweight PARTITION. You can do nearly anything with a partition.
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Jan 27, 2010 9:51:47 GMT -6
True, Tim, just a partition so I will plan to build around, I'd hate to lose another 10" there.
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Jan 27, 2010 9:52:04 GMT -6
Sorry for the dumb questions!
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Post by TDHofstetter on Jan 27, 2010 10:11:16 GMT -6
I have yet to hear, or read, a dumb question!
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Post by Ruffnek on Jan 27, 2010 18:09:25 GMT -6
I have yet to hear, or read, a dumb question! You should sit in on some of our morning conference calls between the rig and the Houston office. You wouldn't be able to say that anymore. ;D |
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Post by deepsplinter on Jan 28, 2010 7:39:15 GMT -6
I have yet to hear, or read, a dumb question! You should sit in on some of our morning conference calls between the rig and the Houston office. You wouldn't be able to say that anymore. ;D NOT TO HIJACK, but Ahh yes, the morning conferences. The best line I ever heard come from a morning conference was, "I have 100 yards (of concrete) coming at noon. Where we gonna put it"? |
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Jan 31, 2010 16:10:48 GMT -6
New question. I have steel I beam running down the perimeter of my shop. I have to go inside some support poles but once I clear them I'm considering jogging the wall a few inches which puts the top plate right under the bottom of the I beam for roughly 1/2 of the 31.5' run.
What are some ways to attach my top plate to the underside of the beam without weakening the beam (I am not up on construction engineering)? I was thinking adhesive only but I'm not sure if I can/should use a fastener.
I may just say to heck with it and run the wall just inside the beam, rendering this question moot but I'm not sure yet. I think that makes an awkward looking wall if I were ever to finish the other side of the basement.
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Jan 31, 2010 17:14:46 GMT -6
They make all sorts of different Liquid Nails stuff for gluing to all sorts of different materials. That's the ticket! Or you could just run the wall to within a half inch of the beam and not even worry with that, especially if you'll have even a stub of a wall running off of the wall you're planning. Or just make the wall height a snug fit, slip it up under the beam to make contact, then knock the bottom of the wall into the marked position on the floor. ;D You are planning to build the walls laying down, then raise them into position and nailing them to the floor, aren't you?
Unless the support poles are like really large in diameter, you might just frame the wall with the posts inside. They're likely butt ugly anyway.
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Joe Lyddon
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Post by Joe Lyddon on Jan 31, 2010 19:03:45 GMT -6
Don't forget, you can always run molding around in corners to hide gaps, etc. ;D
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Jan 31, 2010 19:15:26 GMT -6
Jerry, I'm actually putting the top and bottom plate in place and then cutting each stud to size. It'll take a bit longer but I won't have to bother with shims or planing. The I beam is parallel with my wall so I can put the wall up next to it or I can put the wall right up under it as you suggest. I'll probably glue the top plate to it and go ahead that way but I need to sleep on it  |
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Post by imahic on Jan 31, 2010 19:24:51 GMT -6
Depending on the thickness of the I beam, you might could use one of those power shot things (can't recall the proper name) the one that uses a 22 cal. shot to drive the nail. I have seen those used to nail 2x's to pipe. But the I beam flange may be too thick for that.
Mike
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Post by TDHofstetter on Jan 31, 2010 21:25:05 GMT -6
I was gonna' say something about a powder nailer - yes, they CAN drive nails right into & through steel. All the strength of an I-beam is in the top & bottom straps, though, with very little strength coming from the web. You don't want to do anything that'll compromise those two straps, especially the bottom one... which is in tension instead of compression. It's HIGHLY unlikely that powder-driven nails will compromise its strength, given that steel's tensile strength is about 60,000 psi... but then a long I-beam is under profound tension in the bottom strap because of their geometry. PROFOUND. I'd say don't use powder nails.
Construction adhesive is fine for the purpose, if you wire-brush the I-beam so it's not just sticking to rust. I'd suggest cutting about half a dozen studs slightly overlong, long enough to reach from the FLOOR (not the sill plate) to the top plate, and add a little (1/2", maybe). Apply construction adhesive to the top plate, quickly place it & clamp it in place, then use those overlong studs to shore it while the adhesive sets up. THEN it's UP there & not coming back down.
Next, drop a plumb bob to locate your sill plate. Drop it at several points, mark 'em with a Sharpie, and nail it down with powder nails... avoiding spots where your studs will go. I hate notching a stud to fit around a powder nail...
Last you can cut each stud to fit tightly "in the space provided". Cut the LONGEST ones first, so you can reuse 'em for shorter studs if you cut 'em a tad too short. Don't let 'em skip out when ya toenail 'em in... if you're not using an air nailer, ain't nothin' wrong with starting the toenails while the studs're still lying flat.
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Post by Ruffnek on Jan 31, 2010 21:44:28 GMT -6
What Tim said.
If the bottom of the beam is rust free, you can use construction adhesive to hold the top plate in place. If your studs fit snugly between the plates (snug enough to require a little persuasion with a 4 lb. hammer to fit), then I don't think the wall would ever fail.
If you know a structural engineer, you might ask about drilling holes in the I-beam flange and bolting the top plate in place. He could tell you if you would compromise the beam strength too much and could tell you what size and how many holes you could drill. I'm not sure a powder nailer would penetrate it.
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Post by imahic on Jan 31, 2010 23:08:41 GMT -6
Well, I guess this is one of those duh moments...lol. The times I have seen them used have been on top of the metal and not the bottom. I didn't think about the tension on the bottom flange. I was thinking he probably wants to keep the top of the wall from moving. The liguid nails adhesive would probably do that very well. Is there going to be any cabinets or anything heavy hanging on that wall and would that affect the movement of the top of the wall? I don't know if it would or not, just curious and asking. Nice to have lots of different brains to pick here isn't it? Mine sure needs help now and again.
Mike
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Post by dcarter636 on Feb 1, 2010 0:17:55 GMT -6
You folks must have very stable soils; we are required to use floating walls in our basements. Building a solid wall from slab to floor joist in clay soils is a recipe for lifting the house up off the foundations or pulling living space floors out of level.
Around here we leave a gap to allow for the floating basement floor slab to rise and fall with the seasonal moisture content of the soil. Interior basement walls are hung from the floor joists overhead (top plate toe nailed to floor joist) and a clear gap of 1"-2" is left twixt the sole plate and pressure treated sill plate which is glued and nailed to the slab. Spike nails, driven into the sill plate through clearance holes in the lower wall plate, keep the bottom of the wall aligned over the footer.
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sawduster
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Post by sawduster on Feb 1, 2010 9:10:04 GMT -6
I truly don't see a need to connect the top plate to that beam as you are not building a baring wall, but a simple partition. If there are no walls that will run off of that one perpendicular to it, then you could stabilize the top of the wall with a few wedges knocked in from either side, then cut off flush. That would let you build the wall laid down on the floor, nailing the studs through the sill and top plate rather than having to toenail them. It would also mean that you could cut all of the studs the same length or use precut studs if you've got the clearance rather than trying to cut each one to fit snugly between the already installed sill and top plates. Make the wall with a nominal 1/2" or so of clearance. Mark its location on the floor, and raise it up into place and nail it to the floor with a powder nailer. Then get it plumb and drive some wedges in from either side to stabilize it if need be. The wedges would also compress if you get heaving of the floor from seasonal moisture and temperature changes.
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Feb 1, 2010 15:23:21 GMT -6
You folks must have very stable soils; we are required to use floating walls in our basements. Building a solid wall from slab to floor joist in clay soils is a recipe for lifting the house up off the foundations or pulling living space floors out of level. Around here we leave a gap to allow for the floating basement floor slab to rise and fall with the seasonal moisture content of the soil. Interior basement walls are hung from the floor joists overhead (top plate toe nailed to floor joist) and a clear gap of 1"-2" is left twixt the sole plate and pressure treated sill plate which is glued and nailed to the slab. Spike nails, driven into the sill plate through clearance holes in the lower wall plate, keep the bottom of the wall aligned over the footer. Well now you have me worried Dave! I have not heard of this phenomenon at all. I do know my basement floor will move and it's been poured with stress lines where it will crack when it does move. I did not realize in some places the floor can heave up that far independently of the footer/wall. Wow! |
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Post by dcarter636 on Feb 1, 2010 20:29:32 GMT -6
Chris, most building code enforcement/permitting departments have recommended practice information available to DIYers in the inquiry and planning stage. Even if you don't pull a permit (who does?) they can answer whether expansive soil is a common issue in your geographic area.
Regardless of their answers it just seems like a good idea to avoid tampering with the flatness of the upper floor as much as possible. You could anchor the wall to the slab and fabricate a large scale tongue and groove joint (2x4s on edge) along the top to keep the wall from tilting while allowing considerable rise and fall of the slab without affecting the upper floor.
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lexrex
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Post by lexrex on Feb 2, 2010 14:11:12 GMT -6
I called the code office, they actually pointed me to a nice pdf they have on basement finishing. He also reminded me of what Tim said in another thread. The basements here are all well below the frost line so the floor movement will be minimal and there is no concern for floating walls. I should have little movement other than some minor floor cracks.
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