Framing costs

[lexrex]

I am trying to decide on my shop. I can frame it and perhaps even attempt drywall myself. Or I can farm out the big stuff, run a few heating ducts and my wiring and be done with it in a few weeks.

If I do it, it's a big learning curve and I'll take longer and likely have multiple redo's. OTOH, I don't have a lot of cash on hand (long story with the IRS).

Any guesses at what materials would be if I bought them myself at the lumber yard?

513 Sq. feet, walls and ceiling. 1 sofit for a heating duct, otherwise, the ceilings are flat Ilams.

Lumber cost? Drywall?

What is an acceptable cost markup from a contractor above what I'd pay? I'm assuming 0 because they probably get better prices than I do anyway.

I have one quote for $4,400 right now, I'm having him get me the line item estimate so I can look at what he has. I'll get more quotes, but what I am trying to figure out is what MY costs of mats would be to determine how valuable it is to have someone else do the labor.

[Stretch]

I can't really give you an estimate of what you will pay, but to building my shop, I paid under $2500 for lumber and siding for the whole thing. That's framing the walls and roof and sheeting them. It shouldn't be too terribly expensive to frame up your walls and buy the drywall. What we need to know is the length of walls you will be putting up more so than the square footage. With drywall, I don't mind hanging it, but it is definitely worth it to me to have someone else finish it.

[lexrex]

18 x 18 x 4 x 13.5 x 14 x 31

a stubby L shaped shop.

[imahic]

I'm like Mark and if it were me I would build it myself. I built a storage bldg probably 30 yrs ago with just basic idea of construction. One thing you might look into is some high schools have a bldg trades class and they may do projects like that for a lot less than what a contractor would do. You save money and they get expeerience. You might also check to see if there is a carpenters union that might do something similar to train apprentice carpenters.

Mike

[lexrex]

Jan 11, 2010 11:01:03 GMT -6 imahic said:

I'm like Mark and if it were me I would build it myself. I built a storage bldg probably 30 yrs ago with just basic idea of construction. One thing you might look into is some high schools have a bldg trades class and they may do projects like that for a lot less than what a contractor would do. You save money and they get expeerience. You might also check to see if there is a carpenters union that might do something similar to train apprentice carpenters.

Mike

This is a good thought, I would feel very comfortable working with a skilled carpenter and also paying him for his time.

[dcarter636]

You might get lucky and get a retiree through he union, and he might be interested in having you provide some muscle in exchange for learning.

My granddad would get retiree jobs and I would come along to provide the heavy lifting and learned a few useful tidbits as well.

[larryh86gt]

It's been my experience that I can usually do a better job than a contracter. For him it's a just a job to make money on, for me it's my home and I want it done right. Cost wise doing it yourself has got to be way less. Of course I say this, but hate electrical and plumbing. That's what friends that know what they are doing are for.

[sawduster]

Really hard to figure materials costs to compare to contractor bids. Then above and beyond that, you will need a tool or three that you don't likely have. That could be good or bad depending on your point of view. For a basement job, you'll definitely need one of them bammer nailer things. You know, them cool things that use blanks to shoot nails into concrete. ;D Dem and fun!!! But they add to your costs. Easiest thing to do is figure the linear feet walls you want to add, convert to inches and divide by 16 to figure your studs. Figure how many ceiling joists you'll need at 16" centers. Then head off to your favorite color of big box store and look at their prices.

But you really need to get bids from from a few different contractors to figure whether it is worth your while to do the work yourself. You are likely to see a big difference in the bids for the same work from different contractors. Lots of variables including how hungry the individual contractor is and whether he really wants the work.

[fredbelknap]

Chris I would do it myself, you will save around half. You will make mistakes but you will learn. You don't need a lot of extra tools they just make the job faster and easier. You may even have most of the tools that you will need. I wouldn't use drywall in a workshop as I like to use the walls to hang things on, but a lot of people like drywall. Plywood or osb will do fine, it takes paint fine.Save your money and buy tools.

[lexrex]

Guys, thanks for the info/advice.

I'm going to open a master thread for the project, I will likely DIM.

I will probably hang drywall and have it finished. This is to provide some value were we to need to sell the house in the future, with drywall, all you'll have to do is put in flooring and paint. I am also going to make sure things are to code and to do that with OSB or ply, I would need to then put a layer of drywall on top, increasing my costs. There are still lots of new builds going up in my neighborhood so I plan to stop by and ask the drywall guys if they want a bit of moonlighting after the job.

I guess I am asking the impossible. There's no way for you guys to know the contr. costs under what I'd pay retail. I went to HD tonight to get some prices so I can rough out my own cost. It's not going to be a bad job. I will likely get a miter saw out of it for framing I explained to my wife that I'd have to run temporary 220 to even set up my TS and that's a real PITA (not really) }>

I will have tons of questions so I'll start a new thread for that. I want to do this right and the best way possible.

[larryh86gt]

Jan 11, 2010 18:32:34 GMT -6 lexrex said:

Guys, thanks for the info/advice.

I will probably hang drywall and have it finished.

Save some more money and finish the drywall yourself. It is not that hard to do. The dustless sanders are not that expensive and handy things to have.
Larry

[lexrex]

I am looking at roughly $1250 without finishing and wiring. Not bad, that's home depot price too. I may possibly find some better deals around town.

[Beamer]

When I did my 500+sqft shop, i think the overall materials cost between drywall, insulation, wiring and flooring was about $1300 total when it was all said and done - that includes framing up a truss, putting down a floor and a big heavy door. I don't count the insulated garage door - that was another $1k

[lexrex]

It's more reasonable than I thought Jason. I will definitely be doing this myself, with possibly the help of someone if I get into a bind.

[Beamer]

I didn't have to frame any walls, but the floor and insulation probably compensated for that.

I must not know the secret to finishing drywall nicely. I hate sanding the mud - turns out, I love applying the mud - so much that it's usually way too thick and sanding is a bee itch. Doing the shop was the day we vowed we'd never do the taping/mudding ourselves again - it was worth it to hire out. The walls were fine ... we sanded the walls no problem.

It was the ceiling that sucked - it wasn't the dust, it was the arms above yer head thing ... sore shoulders. And that sander on a stick thing was a joke for me - i couldn't operate it, I guess because it was harder to use that than to hold my arms above my head.

The framing stuff is pretty easy - just think about your panels - it took me a bit to realize that 16" OC was just the first part of that rule. You usually start the first stud a little in (15 3/4 iirc) so that an 8' or 4' sheet lands halfway on a stud so there's room for the 2nd sheet to nail in. If you're doing inside corners, I would suggest "framing a california corner" - it'll make running wires through that corner much easier.

[lexrex]

I am heading to the library tomorrow for a framing book CA corners were what I had in mind, not knowing the name.

As for wires, most of them will be run overhead and come down. The glue lam beams have 2" circular knockouts every 12 or 18" so that will make wiring a total breeze.

[TDHofstetter]

Jan 11, 2010 20:40:21 GMT -6 Beamer said:

...that sander on a stick thing was a joke for me - i couldn't operate it, I guess because it was harder to use that than to hold my arms above my head.

Know what, Beems? Them sanders-on-a-stick are a joke for EVERYBODY. They only work when you're reaching out a LONG way to one side, and then they take a huge amount of extra leverage to keep 'em planted against the ceiling. I've decided they only have value for places like... hmmm. Trying to think.

I SURE second that overhead-sanding-pain thing! I suspect that Michelangelo was ONto something, lying on his BACK to work.

Chris... yeah. You can do this, man. Think it all through carefully, don't assume ANY measurements not taken (the distance between ceiling joists and floors isn't constant, even along one joist), and get help where it's warranted. Oh, and... studs will want to kick out of place when they're toenailed. you can prevent that by tacking a scrap of 2x4 to the plate on the other side of the stud. You can tack it there with long drywall screws if you like - makes it easier to move. OR... you can just stand on it while you toenail. DO NOT USE YOUR KNEE!

[imahic]

Too bad you aren't closer to north Texas. I have several of those tools I would be glad to loan you. I even have a half interest in a drywall lift. That is a lifesaver hanging drywall on the ceiling by yourself. You might try checking out rental stores near you. They might rent some of those tools as well.

[sawduster]

I can see where the finishing of the ceiling would be something of a PITA, especially without some of the sundry things that pros use, and those pro tools are somewhat out of the price range I'd be willing to pay for a one time home improvement job. I would seriously consider doing a suspended ceiling which would be easier to install to begin with and also give you ready access for those changes you will want to make to your 'lectrical after you start using the shop.

For hanging the rock on ceilings we had these very expensive height adjustable folding horses. Sturdy, but light weight aluminium with an 8" or so wide top on them and an intermediate cross bar to step up onto to make it easy to step up to the platform with a sheet of rock on your head. You could get away with making a custom height one from wood for this job. Still gotta drag it around as you're hanging the rock, but it is do-able. And get yourself a reasonably comfortable construction hard hat with a flat top to hold the rock in place with your head while you're securing it. A helper would be good to have, but Timmer posted some really good tips on hanging rock on the ceiling solo over at the old place some time back. Maybe when you get ready to do the rock, he will repost some of that stuff.

For finishing (ceilings and walls), the secret is to keep it neat and clean when you're putting on the mud so you have less to take back off with the sander. Those sanders on a stick are fine for light work but were never meant to have to be used to remove a big ridge of mud. Using the premixed mud in the big buckets, start off putting the tape on and for the first coat on top of the tape with the stuff just like it comes. Keep in mind that it is better to have voids in the coat to fill with the next coat rather than big drips or ridges to have to remove. Mostly we would knock off protrusions from the first couple of coats with a drywall knife and do no sanding. Thin the mud a bit after the first coat on top of the tape and spread the joint wider away from the tape for each application. For taper joints (the ones on the long edges of the rock) you want to end up with joints about 16" wide. If you've got a 12" drywall knife, one coat on top of the tape and a skim coat ought to suffice if you get all the voids filled. For butt joints (the ends of the sheets) you want joints up to three feet wide if you're not gonna texture over it. These will take three or maybe four coats to widen them and then a skim coat. Be careful to fill in voids left from earlier coats with the later ones and your last coat, the "skim" coat, your mud should be almost the consistency of warm, but not melted, butter and you should be concentrating on really pressing the knife against the bare rock on the outer edges of the joint. If you're hanging the rock horizontally, you want to stagger the butt joints in each row as far away from each other as you can.

Man, this turned into a book. Surprising what you remember from better than 35 years ago when you start writing about it.

[CajunRider]

My guess is that by the time you buy the tool to build it and get it all built and ready to put your tools in the cost will be around $2800. The good thing is that the black in cost should only be around $1100. The rest you can space out.