Can someone do me a huge favor??

[sachbvn]

Alright pen turners - I have a favor to ask.

I bought some Euro kits like the ones shown here: www.woodcraft.com/Product/2001556/9312/Satin-Nickel-Finish-European-Style-Pen-Kit.aspx

....and I have the three piece bushing set to go with it.... well - one of the bushings is a "step bushing" so it will actually come apart into two pieces and go back together. I have no idea which way the bushings go on the mandrel.

Can someone give me some instructions on which way the bushings and parts go in reference to the tip, middle, and cap of the pen? A picture would be perfect!

Know what? Maybe a pen book would be a good idea huh? I'll look for one.

Thanks!
Zac

[Doug B]

I don't particularly like Woodcraft's instructions, but they are available from them online here: www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/77B04.pdf
and are most likely to be accurate for the pens since you got them from Woodcraft. Page 2 has a picture of the way the bushings should be set up. Just be a little cautious with the instructions no matter where you get them from - most are likely translated from Chinese and not always accurately

To get to Woodcraft pen instructions, do a search for the pen kit you want under "Product Instructions". There may be other ways to get to them, but that worked for me.

Good luck!

Oh yeah, no need for a pen book, all the pen kit instructions are available online, and most suppliers send the instructions with your order. I have a set of instructions in a 3 ring binder using those plastic protective sheets and that has been a really good way for me to keep track of all the different pen kit instructions.

[Ruffnek]

Nov 13, 2009 19:52:33 GMT -6 Doug B said:

I have a set of instructions in a 3 ring binder using those plastic protective sheets and that has been a really good way for me to keep track of all the different pen kit instructions.

I did the same thing. It saves me having to get online and print out the instructions everytime.

More important than saving the instructions is keeping track of the various bushings. I put them in one of those zip-loc pen bags and write the description on it with a sharpie, making sure to list the mfg, too.

[Doug B]

You are right Cody, it is very important to keep track of the bushings, including the manufacturer, and I do essentially the same thing - each set in a plastic bag appropriately labeled. Usually the bag they come in has that info on it - at least the ones from Woodturningz do. Any set of bushings cost $3.00 from Woodturningz...I don't know how they can do that for some of the sets, but they do!

And Zac, I figured there was a better way to get to the instructions for the pen kits at Woodcraft and there is. On the link you showed, there are 3 tabs including one for "Instructions". That takes you to the same place that I linked to.

[TDHofstetter]

I like to keep the bushings for each pen type together & in order by sliding them onto a 1/4" bolt (they'll fit) and threading a nut onto it to keep 'em there. That way I could set up a pen blank blindfolded. I think I've read each set of instructions just about once.

[sachbvn]

Yeah - well, I did see the instructions that came with it.... but they just didn't make sense to me about how they actually go on mandrel.... it just didn't seem right to me.... towards the tip - the instructions show the wider part of the bushing towards the tip, and the narrow side towards the body..... is this right?


Zac

[TDHofstetter]

That sounds right. The bushing at the tip end should be almost exactly the same diameter as the widest part of the tip cone. The bushing for the other end of that same blank should be small enough to fit inside the central trim ring.

[sachbvn]

I will take a look when I am in the shop again - just to be clear....the instructions Doug posted..... on page two - the picture of the bushings on the left side of the page..... those are as if the pen tip was pointing left, correct?

Just a little weird because in the picture to the right - the tip is pointing right.

Zac

[Doug B]

I think they are both oriented the same way Zac, and exactly the opposite of the way I put them on the mandrel and line them up for assembly. I always like to put the nib end closest to the headstock because it is the most critical part of the pen to get turned correctly.

I told you I did not like Woodcraft instructions, and to me the center bushing just does not look right...it says it is stepped but does not show it very well.

Check out these Penn State instructions...may not be exactly correct for your pens, but probably are, and the pics are much, much easier to understand. www.pennstateind.com/library/PKMONT_ins.pdf

[TDHofstetter]

Nov 13, 2009 21:15:45 GMT -6 sachbvn said:

I will take a look when I am in the shop again - just to be clear....the instructions Doug posted..... on page two - the picture of the bushings on the left side of the page..... those are as if the pen tip was pointing left, correct?

Just a little weird because in the picture to the right - the tip is pointing right.

Zac

Aaaahhhh... I think I understand now - my duh. You're talking about the CENTER BUSHING, right? The smaller diameter MUST go TOWARD the pen's tip & the center band (which you use as a temporary bushing) slides onto it - tucked out of the way while you turn the tenon for it.

[sachbvn]

Lol - tomorrow morning, I will take a picture of how I have the bushings set up - I will indicate which direction the pen tip is facing - and yall can tell me if I'm right lol. Majorly sucks because the dang ol' pen won't fit entirely on the mandrel as I've stated before - oh, FYI - the mandrel shaft is probably less than 6" long...so...yeah I think it's a defect.

Hmmmm....

Zac

[Doug B]

Definitely not a good mandrel shaft if it is only 6" long...everyone knows you really need a full 8" for full satisfaction

Seriously, you need to contact Woodcraft and see if they will send you a longer mandrel shaft...each barrel is normally a little over 2" and you need enough for the collet to clamp onto and then room for 3 bushings. No way is 6" going to work for that.

Just for the record, my shaft is 8" long. No brag, just fact. ;D

[sachbvn]

Here ya go - couldn't wait until morning. Hopefully this clears up the confusion I am having......


The pictures show the way I interpret the Woodcraft instructions.....

Starting from left - to right....left being the tip - far right being the cap.

First bushing - it is wide on one end and narrower on the other end.

First piece pen blank - it's supposed to be the longer part.

Second bushing - this one is like a solid bushing which seems to be the same size - however there is this ring that clips over it and it slides on or off.

Next pen blank - the shorter one.

Third bushing - this one seems one size and I think it is the smallest of them all.

The marker drawing of the paper represents the parts in an exaggerated form.

The second picture is an up close pic of the FIRST bushing i mentioned.






This help explain my confusion???

Thanks for stickin' with me!

[sachbvn]

Doug - I just laughed my arse off, thanks!

I think when I call I am going to say something like.... "does a 6" shaft seem long enough to you? Maybe you can get by with it - most people say they need at least an 8" shaft to properly, and efficiently, get things done"

Zac

[Doug B]

It does not matter how long your shaft is, it's how you use it that counts

Your set up looks correct. The sliding part should go right up next to the lower end of the upper barrel when you do your initial turning. Then you have to part off enough of that upper barrel that will leave a tenon to put the center band onto. To do that, move the sliding part back and turn your 5/16" long tenon down to the (now exposed) part of the center bushing. It really helps to visualize this process if you replace the sliding part of the center bushing with the actual pen center band - yep, it will fit right on that center bushing in place of the sliding part.

You need to turn the upper barrel so it will be flush with the outside of the center band, then turn the tenon so you can actually fit the center band on the upper barrel. Really, once you understand the concept, you will see that this makes sense and is a lot harder to explain than to actually do. I actually prefer to use the center band instead of the sliding portion of the center bushing so I can make sure it is going to be a really good fit on the tenon.

Really Zac, I could show you this in 30 seconds, but it is hard to describe. Let me see if I can find a Youtube video showing it...I bet there is one.

OK, here is something I found on YouTube that is not exactly how I do it, but shows how you can use the pen center band to make an accurate tenon for it. Notice how you can check the fit of the tenon while the lathe is spinning...pretty cool, eh? Here it is www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-e9VoWMQQ

[glenmore]

Zac bigger bushings go with the top shorter one the smaller ones go to the front longer blank. don't forget to turn down a little more for the center band so watch what you do there.

[TDHofstetter]

That does look exactly right, Zac.

The leftmost bushing should be the same diameter as the tip in the kit.

The rightmost bushing should be the same diameter as the cap in the kit.

The center (smaller) bushing should be the right size to barely slip inside the kit's center band.

The center (larger) bushing should be the same diameter as the center band.

EDIT: WAIT. The leftmost bushing is STEPPED. Dang a lang.

The STEPPED bushing should go in the MIDDLE, and the one you have in the MIDDLE should go on the LEFT (toward the tip). The larger center bushing (or the center band) should fit over the STEPPED bushing, and the one you have in the middle now should be the same size as the pen's tip.

[Doug B]

Well, after sleeping on it, and re-reading everything, I' really confused now and see what your question is Zac. I thought the tubes were 8mm and the leftmost bushing was not really "stepped" but that was just showing where the bushing fit into the pen blank tube.

Reading the Woodcraft instructions though, the tubes used are 7mm, so I have no idea why that one bushing would be stepped

OK, the easiest way to make sure you have the bushings set up correctly is to measure each pen component and each bushing and line the bushings up to match. The cap should be the largest diameter and the nib should be the smallest diameter. The middle requires 2 diameters and sometimes there will be 2 bushings to accomplish that, or, as appears to be the case for you here, the can be a sliding piece on the center bushing that allows you the turn both diameters with a single sliding bushing. If you don't have digital caliper, now would be a great time to get one...this is the one I have and it is even on sales right now...that is a great price for this tool! www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47257

For me, the digital readout is the cat's meow because it allows you to easily discern even very, very small differences very, very quickly.

Sorry I did not catch onto what your issue was last night. Like I said, we could show you in 30 seconds what it takes two days to figure out on the computer

I still have no idea why the leftmost bushing seems to be stepped, unless there is another bushing somewhere? The center bushing might use that step for the sliding piece to make a positive stop...could you have the two bushings switched? It could be that the sliding piece needs to be used with the stepped bushing and the one you have in the middle is really the cap bushing. I'm betting that is what has happened here.

Keep us informed!

Compi

[sachbvn]

Doug - I watched that video last night on youtube before you even posted about it! How weird huh? The video wasn't really helpful because it just showed the guy making curls.... no set up - no explanation, zero close ups of the bushings - the most helpful thing was when the guy made the tenon - but even then, very little instructions.....kinda like the shop teacher that would rather make the cut for you as opposed to show you how to do it.

Referencing the above pictures....picture number one. The bushing to the far left - it is "stepped" or...what I think of, as stepped. It has two diameters, large, and small. Is this the bushing that is used for the tip? Which side of the bushing is used?

Middle bushing.... it is (as far as I can tell) one size, solid tube, with a ring that appears to be the exact size of the center band - that goes over the tube. something (in the ring I think, stops it from sliding all the way across the tube, it stops once it is flush.

The bushing on the far right - as far as I can tell, is one size the whole way across.

Question - starting from the TIP (left side) - does this look like it is in the right order?

Second question - does the tenon get turned on the bottom part of the pen (the LONGER blank)?? Does the tenon get turned far enough so that when the middle band gets snapped in place - it sites flush?

I've tried to take all the pieces out of the bags and match up with which bushing it should go with.... I'm not thinking I got it right..... crap-freaking-ola - why is this so hard? It shouldn't be.


Zac

[TDHofstetter]

I went through all sortsa' freakin' when I did my first Euro pen - stuff just didn't look right or seem right. I haven't done any lot of Euros since then 'cause I just don't like 'em much.

I'm really sure the STEPPED bushing goes in the MIDDLE, and the RING bushing fits over it. The tenon will be turned on the CAP-end blank; it should fit the pen's center band (which will be attached to the cap end, but turn freely around the tip end). If I recall correctly, the large end of the stepped bushing will fit the ring bushing - that lets you slide the ring out of the way to turn the tenon, or put it back to turn the OD of the cap end.

If ya like, I'll go grab my Euro bushings & do a setup for you - verifying against a Euro kit - and photograph the setup.