Birch ply an acceptable match for maple?

[Jim Brown]

Every day I get closer to starting the kitchen cabinet project. We've decided on (red) maple finished natural with a solid surface countertop. My question is this: will birch plywood give me an acceptably close match for the interior of the cabinets?

I assure you that the closeness of this match is much more important to the End User than it is to me. She's adamant that the interiors be presentable. I'm adamant that I don't want to spend a fortune on maple veneer plywood if it's too much more than other kinds of hardwood plywood. So ... birch ply as a maple ply substitute?

[dcarter636]

You certainly can find birch ply that is a decent stand in for maple, but you are likely going to want both sides grade A-A with no plugs, which is probably spendy enough to justify going with cabinet grade maple veneer and avoiding the potential wrath of you client.

Me, I'd use A-B or B-B birch for the interiors and document the cost savings at a 25% scrap rate.

[Stretch]

I'd love to give you a definitive answer but I really can't. It just depends on the maple. Maple can actually be fairly variable as to how white it is. I've gotten good matches between birch ply and maple, but I've also dealt with batches of maple that wouldn't match birch or some maple ply I've used for that matter. So I'm going to give you the advise I always give on finishing. Make a finish sample of the maple and the birch ply and let the client approve of the match.

[TDHofstetter]

What's the final finish? If it's a yellowing oil-based polyurethane (or any darker finish than that), the birch will probably be a fine match. If it's a glass-clear water-based polyurethane or similar water-clear finish, chances are a little better'n 50/50, depending on how picky the end user is.

[Jim Brown]

I just thank God the End User wasn't as picky 16 years ago as she is now ....

Okay, I think I can go with the birch for the boxes. The cabinet ends will be pretty minimal given the layout of the kitchen, and I'm thinking of doing them as framed (maple) panels.

I'm planning on water-based poly for finish, so the color will be what it is ... unless I start out with amber shellac for a golder color ... never worked with maple before, so any tips and pointers will be appreciated.

[cabinetman]

Birch and Maple plywoods could look similar, but have dissimilar grain. Other than Baltic Birch, or Apple Ply, the face veneers of Maple and Birch even feel different. Birch has more texture, Maple will feel smoother.

If you have two stacks to look at, one Birch, one Maple, sift through the sheets to find similar looking sheets. Take your finger with a little bit of spit and dab each sheet and you'll see what they could look like.

If you are shopping at a home center, their stamped grading for hardwood plywoods doesn't follow the grading for decorative industry standards but rather for structural or construction use.

Grading for hardwood plywood as set forth by the APA, ANSI, and HPVA designate an alpha character (A, B, C, D) for the face veneer, and a numeric designation (1, 2, 3, 4,) for the back veneer.

[sachbvn]

May 17, 2010 22:54:41 GMT -6 Jim Brown said:

I just thank God the End User wasn't as picky 16 years ago as she is now ....

Okay, I think I can go with the birch for the boxes. The cabinet ends will be pretty minimal given the layout of the kitchen, and I'm thinking of doing them as framed (maple) panels.

I'm planning on water-based poly for finish, so the color will be what it is ... unless I start out with amber shellac for a golder color ... never worked with maple before, so any tips and pointers will be appreciated.

I could shellac any plywood that is going to be stained - it helps any possible blotchyness that may occur with the stain. I tried a test piece of big box grade maple ply - half stained and half stained but first had a coat of shellac. Frickin' night and day different....way better to shellac first IMO.


Zac

[rrich]

If you make the cabinet carcass out of white melamine I think that the end user will be much happier. Your wallet will also be happier too.

Then just use a 1/4" piece of plywood and contact cement to finish the exposed cabinet ends.

From the end user perspective, the melamine is so much easier to keep clean. LOML wouldn't have it any other way.

[Jim Brown]

Melamine never occurred to me ... my main concerns would be weight and the danger of water damage. it would definitely offer a nice clean look, though, and cut down a ton of time and trouble with finishing (though I'll be spraying this time around).

Do you use melamine for the backs as well?

[cabinetman]

May 21, 2010 6:31:03 GMT -6 Jim Brown said:

Do you use melamine for the backs as well?

If you use melamine, there is 1/8" and 1/4" plywood, or Masonite that is available in a painted white or a white vinyl coating.

[TDHofstetter]

If you use melamine... USE a good TRIPLE-CHIP SAWBLADE. It'll save ya loads of heartaches in chipping along every cut...

[Jim Brown]

Going with plywood ... I"m sure I'll regret it when I'm finishing all of these boxes, but I can't see dragging 100+ lb sheets of melamine down the stairs to my basement shop. I found American made maple ply at Home Depot ... won't know if it's any good until I start cutting into it, of course.

[Leo Voisine]

Jim, Nice that you got the Maple ply.

One thing I would note.

The "customer" *wants* the inside to be meticulous.

In a case like that - I would give the customer "exactly" what the "customer" wants.

I would have clearly explained to the customer that the insides would require a high grade ply and the total price would be $100 or whatever more.

If they want to pay for it - they get it.

I would NOT have hesitated for an instant to use the better grade of Maple ply. I would have gone to my hardwood dealer and got a real good grade of Maple ply at $100 - $125 per sheet.

[Jim Brown]

Well, the "customer" and I had a long talk, and we've decided we're probably going to be in this house for no more than 3-5 years ... so this isn't going to be a dream kitchen ... but it will still be a huge improvement over what's there.

And those old cabinets are going to look great in the garage!