Dock light question

[CajunRider]

What's the best way to light a 500ft dock with light every 20 ft and on/off switch at each end?

[dicklaxt]

The absolute best way would be a series system with each fixture having its own transformer(think like a street light) and module so if one failed the others would still burn.

Do you have a 3 phase ,480 volt system available, if so use it if not then 1 phase 240 volt would be next,

Voltage drop would be a killer here,,,,,,,,,it will take some thinking once voltage distribution source is known to sort out circuit requirements and switching.I certainly would use individual photo cell control with overall manual over ride.

There are lots of ways to skin this rabbit but individual needs & $'s will solve anything. LOL and then again it could also become cost prohibitive.

I would need to know all the parameters and would be glad to design a system for you free of charge of course.

dick

[CajunRider]

I do have 1 phase 240 volt. I ain't got much money for this. Yes money will solve this problem easily but then where the fun in doing it the easy way?

[imahic]

CJR, maybe TripleFreak will chime in, but I think he is an electrician. If he doesn't you might send him a pm. I don't have any plans on doing what you are but would be interested to know how it can be pulled off.

Like Dick says, the voltage drop would be a killer with them all in series. If they are in parallel with each other they would work but I still think there would be a limit to how many you could have on one circuit. Have you considered low voltage lighting? Similar to landscape lighting? Not sure what is available out there but it would be interesting to know.

[TDHofstetter]

To get a switch at both ends, they've gotta' have at least one common control circuit that makes the whole 1000' loop. Since that's true, my vote is gonna' be for 120VAC, powering 12VDC halogen lights. You're talking 26 lights there (one at 0'), so assuming a 15A circuit you're limited to about 60W per fixture. Drop that to 50W and you get less voltage sag. That's not bad, really - lots of halogen headlights & fog lights are 50W. Since they're directional, they cast a lot of light.

If you can readily lay hands on a 240V/120V transformer rated for 1800W or more (big transformer), I'd run 240V to the center of the dock, mount the transformer at that point, then run 120V both directions from there.

[Joe Lyddon]

I would use Flourescent bulbs where you get more light for the power... ie 25 watt IN = 100 watt OUT.

Parallel hook-up for sure... NOT Series.

I think it would take a 4 conductor cable to do it including the ground.

May take more than one circuit depending on how bright you want them.

Another way, that would eliminate AC wiring 100%, would be to place Solar Powered stations along the dock... Sun Down, Lights ON, Sun Up, Lights OFF... Might be better in the long run.

Let us know what you decide... OK?

[dicklaxt]

I assume this is no more than stumble lighting until you get to the end of the dock.It is at this point the gal with the 30-06 wants a potty and probably more light and even an air conditioner in the little shanty thats going to reside there so lets not even talk about that load requirement at the moment.The question has not been asked about but how far is it from the panelboard to the beginning of the dock,chit that may be another 200 feet ,,it has to be considered in the over all voltage drop/

Tim has a good idea but I think that a little more light is needed on 20 foot centers,50 watts is not much when your looking for snakes and alligators.

Think about convenience receptacles as well,fish cleaning table and sink,storage,aerators,underwater fishing lights etc.

I'm voting for 100 watt incandescent watertite fixtures on masts,PVC conduit & fittings with CGB connectors with open cable loops,load it on a Photocell controlled 8 circuit lighting contactor with one set of 3 way switches for manual over ride.I really don't see the need for a shut off at the dock end but if thats a requirement, so be it.

Lets assume the panelboard is 200 feet away from the start of the dock and we will run 4 circuits for lights with an occasional receptacle staggering circuits so that you don't have a black out,1 circuit for A/C,1 circuit for the building,1 circuit for end of dock auxilliaries and that leaves us 1 spare for the 30-06 gal's next desire.

Based on the above the 4 lighting circuits would average about 625 feet each and using 5% allowable voltage drop with 6-100 watt lamps/circuit it would require #4 AWG feeder wire size per circuit.

Now consider the building as another circuit and the aux's as another and then the A/C.These would probably have a load requirement of 7 to 10 amps each and the A/C circuit could be 10-12 amps.

Dock aux circuits at 8 amps and 700 feet would require a #2 AWG feeder with 6% voltage drop and the A/C at 10 amps and 700 feet would also require a #2 AWG feeder at 240 volts and 4% voltage drop.

Cajun do you see where this is going I hope so,you are getting ready to spend more than you may have budgeted if you do it right.

A little cost savings in copper would be realized using 240Volts for everything but it would probably level out with increased lamp and fixture prices increasing because of requiring the higher voltage ratings.

Sorry to be the bearer of deep pocket requirements.You only live once so enjoy.

dick

[TDHofstetter]

We wouldn't just hang a subpanel at the land end of the deck, with - say - a 40A main?

[dicklaxt]

Who knows the plan?That would be a good spot for the 8 circuit contactor that could double as a Sub Panel and so we now have a main feeder required at 200 feet and 4 % is another #2 AWG feeder at 240volts and direct burial I assume unless there is a lot of oyster shell then it will have to go in conduit,
Flashlights are sounding better all the time.

dick

[TDHofstetter]

Oil torches.

Heck, TIKIS!

[TDHofstetter]

Option: Suitcase generator, 'lectric start, about the middle of the dock.

[rrich]

Why not just use some of those solar powerd lights?

[CajunRider]

OK here are some more information. I was just talking about the lighting for the walkway of the dock only but now that we touched on what I need to do here's the whole scoop.

For the main dock, I'm running a 2" conduit all the way from the main panel out to the dock panel. I will be running 1 ought wire to feed a 100 amp panel out there.

For fishing light I will be using four 1200 watt metal halide lights and a couple 200 Watt under water light.

Of course there'll be the waste lift pump, the fridge/freezer, point of use hot water heater, etc.
In short it'll be like a small house out there by the time I'm through with it.

All this seem extravagant. However for my type of house, if I want to sell it for good price later, all this is necessary. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the building it up.

For the walkway light, I'm seriously thinking about LED bulbs. Pricey but long lasting and hardly pull much power.

[CajunRider]

Apr 8, 2010 21:13:25 GMT -6 rrich said:

Why not just use some of those solar powerd lights?

No can do. The birds poop all over the solar panels and render them useless.

[TDHofstetter]

About them LED bulbs... I've seen some of 'em in person. Buy ONE and try it out - see for yourself how much light it casts on a moonless night on the dock. It may satisfy, it may not. You get eleven years (design life) from one... but then you get darn near that by running DC through a 120VAC incandescent (which burns a lot more power as it produces a lot of heat, which them high-ticket LED lights ALSO do, but to a lesser degree). LED lights WILL save you some ladder time, that's for sure... and that might be wicked important. They'll want totally sealed housings, since they're right over the water. Otherwise, the contacts'll turn to #### before the bulbs get replaced the first time. That includes sealing around the individual wires where they enter the housing, too, with silicone or one of the rubber caulks.

You might be surprised just how much power a hi-lux LED bulb does require... CFLs may draw less for comparable light.

[dicklaxt]

And yesterday we didn't have any money,,,,,,, ::)Sounds like a local contractor will be the winner in this case,not WoW

[Joe Lyddon]

Apr 8, 2010 22:07:39 GMT -6 CajunRider said:

Apr 8, 2010 21:13:25 GMT -6 rrich said:

Why not just use some of those solar powerd lights?

No can do. The birds poop all over the solar panels and render them useless.

Oh chit... didn't think of that minor problem!

Yes, LEDs might be the answer... a good Long Run decision.
IIRC, they don't take much Voltage... BUT more current than expected... (??)

[triplefreak]

Personally, I'd go with 120V, CFL bulbs in a jelly jar fixture.
A CFL bulb will only pull 7 watts, and on top of being cheaper to operate, you only have to run one circuit. One drawback is running 3 wire to the end of that dock. Again, personally, I'd go with a photoelectric cell, and eliminate the need for switches altogether. That way, you can run a single 12/2 cable from one end to the other. Put the photo eye on the shore end & you're all set.

[Joe Lyddon]

What is CFL?

[triplefreak]

Apr 9, 2010 12:33:23 GMT -6 Joe Lyddon said:

What is CFL?

CFL = compact fluorescent light bulb.